Nice to see this pop up as Apple announce their 5yr plan to flood the world’s landfills & scrap yards with 8gb fused ram Neo’s.
Yes, but if you are running Windows on them, do they still inject Chinese state-sponsored malware into Windows on every boot from UEFI/BIOS storage?
They were caught doing this on several occasions, to the point where Lenovo products are forbidden across significant swaths of the U.S. government and military.
Err… were they? I remember vulnerabilities and a ban from SOME of the US gov agencies, but not clear if it was because of spying concerns or because they wanted a US supplier.
How this hasn’t killed all serious interest is beyond me.
Goldfish memories by most muggles and normies.
Plus the latest shiny and feature FOMO.
And then you have procurement who are told to get the most at the least cost, allowing state-owned companies to undercut most competition. Without clearly-specified guidelines that exclude dangerous tech, most rank-and-file salarymen will be told by Dilbert bosses to order the hardware or look for a different job.
How would you recommend someone shop for a laptop? Any good guides?
If you have the money and want simplicity, reliability, and interoperability, go for a Mac. Just clench your sphincter and maximize the RAM; min. 32Gb ought to be minimally appropriate for a 7-8yr lifespan of basic duties. And FFS, go for what your current data uses up ×2.5 or 1Tb, whichever is larger (vital performance reasons in that). Don’t get the smallest storage unless third-party upgrade options exist like for the Mac Mini M4. And remember: all RAM and a lot of storage is integrated these days, which is why you should always max it out; there is no upgrade path except wholesale replacement of the machine. CPU is largely immaterial unless you are doing truly heavy lifting like video editing or AI, so that can often be the lowest choice.
If you want freedom and truly unconstrained system, some form of Linux/BSD on a Framework system is the way to go. Or if a desktop, hand-assemble it yourself.
If you are going to stick with Windows, go for a business-class Dell. Trust me, it’ll be almost as $$$$ painful as a Mac, but these little f**kers are built to last. At least you can upgrade the RAM and on-board storage, although I honestly recommend not going under 32Gb for anything other than basic tasks. It’ll be a lot more zippy with 32Gb even if you spend the first week tearing all the AI and built-in spyware out of Windows.
They can’t be a 10, only framework gets a 10. Nothing compares.
My memory was fuzzy, but I think it wasn’t UEFI but apps/drivers, but j could be wrong
You are correct, however they were malicious in nature and loaded on every boot from the UEFI/BIOS. They required Windows and auto-terminated the install if they already existed.
Lenovo not dropping the ball on their thinkpad reputation but improving it. Very impressive
The issue I had with my previous Lenovo Thinkpad wasn’t that it wasn’t repairable when it broke, it was. The issue was that the cost of just replacing the keyboard was prohibitively high. Higher than the cost of a new laptop. So it became e-waste.
Get repairability too bad they start at 1200 USD
I tend to buy T-series laptops once they are about 5 years old, and still have tons of life left in them.
I’ll probably be looking for a T14 Gen 2 this year. Nothing wrong with my T495 'cept that my kid spilled water on it but fortunately only killed the hall sensor.
In fact, I thought the laptop was dead but I. Noticed a little corrosion on the hall sensor board, unplugged it, laptop started right up.
And it’s still got plenty of life in it to hand down to my kid for Minecraft and such.
One thing to highlight: T-series Lenovo laptops are mainstream business products shipped at a huge scale.
This is not a small-scale experimental product for the tinkerers. This may define the biggest laptop segment if it works out well. It might be the first time in a while that something like this hits such a huge market.
We’re so back
Literally. Repairability used to be expected.
Does 10/10 mean it’s got RAM and drives accessible without needing to disassemble the whole fucking thing?
Nice to see both aren’t soldered onto the motherboard, but we’ve still gone backwards in the last 20 years.
Back in the day every screw on thinkpads had a series of little symbols on them to tell you which ones you needed to undo in order to get to the ram, storage, keyboard, and fans. Without needing a repair manual. I hope they brought that back!
Holy shit I’ve never heard of this but that’s awesome. I would love to see that nowadays
without needing to disassemble the whole fucking thing
well you still need to take the bottom cover off
Nah they soldiered it to the cpu cooler cause fuck you thats why
Read the article. They’re using replaceable modules.
They got scared by Framework sucess
Lmao
I kinda doubt Framework’s success, no matter how large by niche manufacturer standards, even reaches Lenovo’s sales on a bad day.
Good that they’re (apparently) changing though.Exactly, but it still won’t get them my money. I believe in rewarding companies who had the balls to listen to their customers first with my dollars. Framework will be my next laptop no matter what any other competitor comes out with.
They’re the only reason we’re seeing any company starting to u-turn and make modular/repairable laptops.
Framework will be my next laptop no matter what
Big tent Framework?
I was not aware of that stuff you linked, appreciate the sources and education. I read through them and damn… 😩 there’s always some wacko ruining shit for the rest of us.
I agree that DHH guy sounds like a bigoted nut, but the thing about the Hyprland community being toxic doesn’t sound any different to just about any other linux community. There’s always some douche wanting to sound superior to others on the forums and usually a lot of them.
Elitest mentality kills just about any community enjoyment for a broad spectrum of intrests. So to me that’s just background noise, the DHH thing though… you have a valid concern.
I don’t think there is any truly clean competition sadly we seem to live in a world of the lesser evils instead of the lesser goods. I’ll keep my eyes out and see if any better options come up, or if you have any recommends on companies to keep in mind.
Well, good…
Though reparability is a good part of it, another would be a concrete commitment that the form factor of various things will be consistent generation to generation, that Gen 8 boards will fit into a current laptop.
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I suppose Framework will be the better laptop for individuals looking to buy a new laptop, but also business class laptops come with fancy enterprise things like on-site repairs. So I think large corporations, the main customers of new T series Thinkpads, will continue buying them just the same anyway.
I think the people benefitting the most here actually are going to be the people buying off-lease Thinkpads. Those of us who know a quality used laptop is better than a cheapo new one (like a Pavilion or Ideapad), but also don’t want to spring for a brand new laptop (in which case Framework would be the best option - they’d be great used too, but they’re not that common on the used market)
This is me. I’m casually looking at a used Think Pad for Linux purposes and like you say, I know a well looked after second hand business class T model is better than a brand new shittop
yeah, my company recently switched away from dell to Framework laptops. a couple of my coworkers with the Framework laptops really like them. They like how sturdy they are. The magnesium alloy case doesn’t flex at all. Our dell laptops with plastic cases often get dented and bent so eastily, and cause various problems.
We also have a couple Lenovo laptops, and I haven’t heard of any issues. Generally, the plastic used for Lenovo’s cases are noticeably thicker and harder than dells’.
I definitely feel a sense of ease knowing that if anything goes wrong with our framework laptops, I will most likely be able to fix it.
Our dell laptops with plastic cases often get dented and bent so eastily, and cause various problems.
My work’s Latitude barely flexes, apples to apples?
That’s awesome, but what issues did they have with dell? They’re pretty easy to disassemble and repair if you don’t buy the cheap consumer shit, get latitudes. But I’m all for straying away for framework.
But I won’t buy anything lenovo, should I finally let that go?
I have an X1 Carbon Gen 9 (so a few years old now). I wanted to replace my HDD and they (Lenovo) had videons on how to do it.
I’d say yes. But stick to ThinkPad series. I have an IdeaPad for work and I really which I told my boss to buy a ThinkPad instead. Keyboard has broken twice in 2 years.
Yeah, its less the durability, and more the long standing security issues:
- Firmware flaws they didn’t always patch
- many vulnerabilities that were known
- bundled apps that included known vulnerabilities
- Installing software on first boot from hardware (discontinued)
- Superfish injected ad traffic which allowed mitm attacks
- hardware level backdoors
So most of these things get alleviated since I always wipe new computers and put Linux on them anyways. But the repeated poor decision, security, and anti consumer practices concerns me.
I used to work at a company that bought bulk electronics and refurbished them. Phones, laptops, whatever. Flooded crates of laptops weren’t an issue, nor was human feces.
Anyway, since we weren’t really an official partner of any of the manufacturers, we didn’t have whatever in-house repair guides their own technicians would have. But what we did have was Google. And I’ll tell you what, just google “Lenovo (model name) HMM” (Hardware Maintenance Manual) and you get an excellent official guide, freely available to everyone. For Thinkpads anyway, not sure about Ideapads. Example: Here’s the current gen Snapdragon version of the T14s, on Lenovo’s own website. They seem to keep older ones available too.
But to be fair, HP and Dell also do this for their professional gear.
Just a lil nitpick: article is by iFixit who is a Lenovo business partner. So perhaps less objective than one might hope.
It seems to me that Lenovo’s repairably is more affected by that iFixit partnership than the opposite. I don’t see anything factually wrong or suspicious in the article.
Nevertheless, a conflict of interests is possible.
I agree, but like others have said, it bodes well that they’re open about this in the article
They even state it them selves in the article, so it is not like they are trying to hide this. Also they say that this is not the end all be all of reparability, which IMO should merit not then getting a 10/10 but idk what their metrics are.
As someone who has changed a laptop keyboard before.
That picture says it all.
Picture’s worth a thousand expletives.
I use iFixit’s guides all the time, so I would hope that their score isn’t affected by it. I’ve seen them as being fairly good at their role.
This is true, but they’re also not wrong that fully-modular USB-C ports is an absolutely huge win. It’s one of the biggest things when it comes to laptops these days.
That was where I went “holy hell”. Wearing out ports is something I am constantly quite scared of when plugging things in. Especially things like cables when they want to twist vertically, but the port is horizontal, and, well, it’s a thick cable, so…
It’s unlikely that fact will change the repairability of the devices. They risk too much by posting biased and false information on that end.
twinkpads have always been extremly based. writing it from my l540
Lenovo, you say…?
Its global headquarters are in Beijing, China, and its North American headquarters is in Morrisville, North Carolina, United States;[
Nah… I’ll stick to MSI
no noes chinese made hardware, it might have chinese spyware and all my data will be sent to the CCP! letme just continue using my AMERICAN HARDWARE with AMERICAN SPYWARE while sending all my information to the us government and copos instead of the CCP! walks away holding AMERICAN PHONE with always on cameras,mic and gps <3 At least when your data is sent to the ccp, its most definitely not going to affect you if you’re not in china.
Lenovo also owns the Motorola phone brand, and they’re going to adopt/allow GrapheneOS. I think they know how to grab customers right now, and I honestly like it.
It’s Lenovo reading the room (well, which is unusual), rather than worrying about the consumer.
It’s still a big corpo and line must go up.
Nice to see this is turning out to be a net positive though.Isnt lenovo the company that used to make the rugged military laptops that actually had Chinese or foreign backdoors installed?
Edit: for those interested https://www.investigativeeconomics.org/p/government-still-buying-lenovo-laptops
Edit 2 from a quick search. Lenovo laptops have faced allegations of containing backdoor vulnerabilities that could allow unauthorized access to data, particularly concerning military use. These concerns have led to bans on Lenovo products by various intelligence agencies due to potential cybersecurity risks.
 securityaffairs.com Wikipedia
Lenovo Laptops and Backdoor Concerns
Background on Lenovo’s Security Issues
Lenovo, a Chinese technology company, has faced multiple allegations regarding security vulnerabilities in its laptops. These concerns primarily revolve around potential backdoors that could allow unauthorized access to sensitive data.
Notable Incidents
Year Incident Description 2008 U.S. military investigators reported finding backdoored chips in Lenovo motherboards, which allegedly logged keystrokes and transmitted data.
2013Intelligence agencies in the U.S., UK, and Australia banned Lenovo PCs due to backdoor vulnerabilities discovered during testing.
2015The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) charged Lenovo for pre-installing adware that created security vulnerabilities, leading to a settlement.
2016The Pentagon warned that Lenovo computers could introduce compromised hardware into the Defense Department.
That’s fucking depressing and SO ironic…
So in order to get more spying machines onto US IT networks, their honey pot is “build a product that is pro consumer”, and it will sell like hotcakes in the IT community.
What a fucking timeline
Motorola has been kinda crap for years now, not supporting their android phones with updates, etc.
Hopefully this is a new leaf for them.
Isn’t Lenovo that dodgy company that did the China stuff though? Hopefully they’ve been bought by someone else since then.
They’re usually also well supported on Linux, and even sell them with Ubuntu and Fedora pre-installed. Generally not a terrible brand.
Is that a good idea for a non tech person* with no Linux experience who absolutely needs to send documents successfully to others the first time without delay or should I just wait until my degree is finished and I am less dependent on document interoperability and have fewer absolute deadlines?
- My level of technical knowledge is here: if a program or usb device isn’t functioning, I know to check the driver, but I always have to look up what the device manager is called. On the other hand, I am capable of looking things up and following simple instructions, which has to count for something.
who absolutely needs to send documents successfully to others
While the problem is Micro$lop intentionally not following their own document standard, i’d say wait until you finish your degree.
Generally speaking though, unless you ave very specific needs, you’ll most likely do fine with linux. You can try a liveUSB version: boot it of off a USB drive, test it, without installing (it’ll be slower though).You’re as prepared as anyone ever is. Getting good with a search engine is the best preparation.
Also, if that fails? Most distros have a forum where you can ask for help and actually get it.
Document interoperability? LibreOffice works well, and you can save in all the same formats as MS Office and more.
The learning curve is mostly what the new tools and programs are called. But so much stuff actually works better over there in Linux land - VLC, Krita, Blender, Audacity, much more.
Try things in a Virtual Machine! If you really can’t give up some of your windows tools, you can try dual-booting, but Windows Update doesn’t always play nice with another OS on the machine.
Also, don’t forget creating a bootable USB stick with the distros you think you’d like. Rufus or balena etcher should get you there, just figure out what distros you think you’d like to try out, as sometimes it can be easier to set those up than create a vm, plus you might be able to notice any obvious issues running natively.
If you know what a driver and device manager is and know how to Google search you are already leagues ahead of most ordinary people, especially with AI now getting answers is even easier, if your use case is simple student stuff and sending documents, Linux is gonna be very comfortable for that, the only concern is a minor chance of driver issues for something like biometric sensor or graphics cards on laptops, for that you can look up which distro and driver combo works for your specific hardware, but in my experience these days by and large most Linux distro just work out of the box with mordern hardware, you can test one out before installing with a live USB and if you want the most amount of compatibility but a laptop that comes pre installed with Linux or has the option of Linux provided by the manufacturer as that guarantees the hardware plays nice at least with the distro the manufacturer supports
Depends. If you use Google docs or the browser version of Office 365 (or whatever it’s called now) you’ll be fine. If you want to use an offline document editor, you’ll need to be technical enough to understand the difference between file formats like doc, odf and pdf.
If you receive a doc file, edit it in LibreOffice and send it back, the recipient might complain that the layout has shifted slightly.
If you need to be absolutely sure the recipient gets the document layed out exactly as you created it and they don’t need to edit it, exporting to pdf is a good option.
If you need to send or receive Excel/spreadsheet files you might have a bad time, I think. Though interoperability there may have improved since the last time I tried that sort of thing.
Before switching to Linux, download the Windows/Mac version of LibreOffice or OnlyOffice and see if it suits your needs. If not, it should be possible to run Office 365 on Linux using Wine or Winboat. However, Wine might not work or require too much tinkering for the average noob. Winboat should be more foolproof, but will increase the startup time of the application because you’re running it inside a Windows VM.
You can try out most Linux software immediately on Windows, so you know what you’re in for. LibreOffice and GIMP work in Windows, but that isn’t really true the other way around with Office and Photoshop. Your mileage may vary when it comes to tolerating these alternatives.
You’re exactly at the perfect level to start getting your feet wet without losing productive time (as long as you don’t go on a distro-hop frenzy 🤣).
Weirdly enough, you’re way ahead of 99% of the tech-using population worldwide.
It depends. If you get a Laptop that is specifically compatible with Linux (like a Lenovo) and use a “noobie Distro” (like I do (Linux Mint or Fedora, whichever looks nicer to you)) then you’re fine
If you use a Laptop which is not compatible, you’re going to have a very bad time
Your technical knowledge as described is unironically far beyond the average user so I’d say you’re probably good. Depends on what you want to do though. You can occasionally have problems if you need to do something specific or are married to software that doesn’t exist on Linux. Word processing is down pat. You won’t have the app version of Microsoft Office, but there are open source alternatives like LibreOffice that are compatible with Office file types. For formatting, you may have to download some Microsoft owned fonts since they’re technically proprietary and not bundled with Linux/your office suite. In browser, Microsoft 365 and Google Docs works no differently than normal.
As someone else mentioned, you can test almost any distro on a live USB. There is also this site where you can remote in and test the general look and feel for free. You won’t have an internet connection though:
your level of technical knowledge is so far beyond the average person’s that it’s insane. the idea of ‘my computer has a problem, i’m going to google what the popup says’ simply does not occur to so, so many people.
also- you can definitely make and send documents with linux, no problem. more popular distros (ubuntu, mint, fedora (which i recommend, but im biased)) are as intuitive and point-and-click for surface level use as Windows is, and most come pre-installed with an office suite.
If your computer has 4+ cores/threads and 8GB or more of ram, I’d set up a virtual machine to test it out.
Linux itself works just fine for anything, but it’s different. There’s a learning curve and you might find that the thing you need to do immediately has a different process than what you’re used to, or needs some setting up first. There’s also always formatting differences between word and libreoffice writer (same can be said for different versions of word), and some higher level excel things that aren’t easy or not possible in calc.
I think you’ll be OK but there will be a slightly learning curve since it is a different OS. As for documents make sure they work well with either LibreOffice or OnlyOffice, which should be available on other OSes. There are also always online office suites if needed.
If you have a spare flash drive, you can also test out Linux distros (flavors) before installing them in a live mode, like a demo.
Best of luck.
Not gonna lie, Linux is a pretty big learning curve, but it’s worth it to get away from Apple and (especially) Microslop Winblows. It’s the only OS that respects the user.
IMO switching to Linux as a new user is no harder than switching from Windows to Mac, which I think is something more people can identify with and aren’t afraid of, for the most part.
Couldn’t disagree more. Having to learn how to use the command line to complete basic tasks is a huge learning curve.
what basic task have you run into that requires the command line? have you tried Mint? my 83 year old dad has been on mint for over a year with no complaints, and I don’t think he even knows how to open the terminal . . .
I’m just not interested in rehashing this conversation. Anyone who has used Linux already knows, even if they won’t admit it. Being dishonest about it isn’t helping anyone. I used Windows for 30 years and never touched any kind of CLI in that time. I did use it on MacOS but only for Homebrew because there’s no other GUI alternative.
i think it heavily depends on the person’s use case. if someone is doing web browsing and maybe making a couple word documents, the learning curve is negligible. also, you dont need to use BASH to do most things, it’s 2026. most anything you can think of, you can do via GUI.
It doesn’t matter what the usecase is if the Wifi or speakers or camera don’t work. Or if all the icons and text are so small as to be nearly impossible to read.
Couldn’t disagree more. Having to learn how to use a Mac is a huge learning curve.
Lol what I was using Linux when I was a kid. Other than learning how to use terminal commands and a package manager occasionally it’s hardly any different from other OSs
Installing something like Linux Mint or Ubuntu is fairly easy. The hardest part is probably creating the install media and that’s not particularly hard ei her.
If you don’t rely on specific software (like Adobe), using Linux is a good idea. I’d still advice not to mess with a computer you rely on and wait until you have sufficient time to troubleshoot something. Even if nothing goes wrong a new OS can still take a little getting used to.
Try with a VM first, or install on an external drive and boot from USB.
I got a Mac at work and I struggled for a long time to do many basic things. Any change can be a challenge and there’s a learning curve. Same moving to Linux
You should be fine if it’s just messing with the usual document types but my understanding is universities use a lot of proprietary bullshit for homework and stuff these days that probably doesn’t play well with Linux. I would try setting up a virtual machine or a old PC if you have one first to dip your toes in the water
Didn’t they have some huge controversy for having spyware pre-installed or something like that a few years ago? Doesn’t take away from the direction they’re moving in now, though! Hopefully they continue to move in this more pro-consumer direction.
Yeah the Superfish incident. AFAIK they haven’t done anything sketchy since then and if you’re the type to just wipe everything and install your own distro anyway it shouldn’t really affect anything but still not a great look.
Ubuntu? Yeah. It’s pretty much the only distro I will recommend against using (the Ubuntu spins are usually fine though). They offer Fedora as well though. And it’s still way better than Winblows.
I presume you are referring to the SuperFish scandal in 2015.
They were also the first OEM to support steam deck on their handheld (beside Valve).
Could they please cooperate with Framework and create Universal Joints?
At a guess, such cooperation would undermine Lenovo’s profit margin and would thus be a non-starter for them.
Enter government regulation, to pinch corporations by the ear and drag them to doing what’s right for society.
I HATE the idea if you can’t make money off it, even if would make the world 10x better for everyone, companies won’t do it. Shareholders gotta eat!!
This its why capitalism is failing. Shareholder profit is a fundamentally unsustainable incentive.
Sorry to be pedantic but strictly speaking “shareholder profit” isn’t the issue with capitalism because that would include worker-owned cooperatives which are not causing the same problems.
The issue is the legal obligation of a private or public company to make an increase in returns for shareholders year on year.
This is why decisions like downgrading quality, design by committee to appeal to focus groups, everything becoming a subscription service, and firing staff to reduce wage overheads in the last financial quarter exist.
Because it’s easier for the company directors / C-level executives to make these decisions which make line go up, rather than try to justify to shareholders why a steady or small dip in returns is necessary for longer term investment and growth.
This is compounded by the shortsightedness of companies only planning quarter to quarter then governments + central banks basing all economic decisions on GDP figures.
Because the easiest thing to make national line go up is to give tax cuts to the owning elites for them to shuffle even more money around in the stock and commodity markets, they buy up all the assets of the working class, the middle class, and the governments selling them off.
But funnily enough, centralising all the apparent wealth in the hands of a few silver-spooned arseholes is not a basis for a functioning society.
Hot take because Line Must Go Up is being blamed on "For the Shareholders!" lately, but:
It’s not just publicly traded companies. Private companies have greedy C-suites too.
Idc.
Do it.
