mohab

What’s the point of creating new innovative games when you’re happy with a reskin of an old game?

You have to be ragebaiting at this point 😂 There clearly is room for both to exist. Why do you need me to tell you that?

And yet can beat games like Borderlands 4?

Oh, the game that released with so many performance issues platforms started allowing refunds past their typical refund window, and a toxic publisher that went on a self-sabotaging campaign and asked players to refund the game if they can’t afford the latest GPU on the market? Yeah, we’re still trying to find out why this game didn’t sell too well 😂

Because that’s my whole point. Innovation inherently creates friction for players because they need to do something they haven’t done before, so players gravitate towards easily accessible safer games which is why (when made well) will sell significantly better than innovative games.

OMG, accessibility has nothing to do with innovation. A slow-paced farming simulator is inherently more accessible than a 2D action platformer just by virtue of its pace alone. You can still innovate while making a slow-paced game, and I don’t even know why you need to be told something so basic.

And again back to Noita? Did the game hurt your feelings or something? Why are you so obsessed with it?

Nah, I just find your ignorance and self-absorbtion aggravating. You’re not unique in that BTW, almost every discussion revolving around indie games eventually devolves into people needlessly making up some kind of mythology out of sheer ignorance.

Oblivion remaster, which is literally Oblivion reskinned, sold over 9 million within the first 3 months after release.

Hell yeah it did. Oblivion was an innovative game people grew up with, it’s still fun to play, and exciting to experience in better graphics and quality of life improvements.

You explain to me how COD, which is hardly an innovative series now, was 6 times more appealing to gamers than Clair Obscure, which was a great and innovative game?

I can’t with these arguments 😂 The cultural cache and marketing reach of COD alone puts it in front of many more eyeballs. Great innovative game or not, how’s a new AA studio gonna put together the budget compete with a franchise that can afford Superbowl TV spots?

That’s my point with Noita as well. Noita at it’s core it not a bad game, which is why it has sold well. But because it has made certain innovative design decisions it will never sell as well as something like Stardew Valley, which is very much the opposite of innovative because by the admission of the developer they’ve effectively cloned harvest moon.

OMG, Stardew Valley is one of the most accessible games of all time, in one of the most accessible genres of all time. How are you gonna compare it to Noita and blame the lower sales numbers on innovation?

Your argument does not hold an ounce of water, and mostly just stems from your unreasonably narrow-minded, naive approach to this whole discussion.

Also, why the fuck are your circling back to Noita now? I thought it’s irrelevant to the discussion, or isn’t it? 😂

Your point lacks any nuance that makes it worth discussing. Claiming innovation “Should equate to sales; otherwise, we can conclude people aren’t interested in innovation.” excludes many relevant factors like affordability, production quality, accessibility, gameplay density, genre market share, and most importantly: fun.

If you stopped to think for a second before you started jerking off to Noita, or as you embarrassingly insist “your completely random stand in for unpopular innovation that totally could be any other game and not the one you like and clocked more than 100 hours in”, you could’ve realized many innovative, genre-defining games sold really well. In fact, a common theme among new IPs that sell well is they came up with a new gameplay loop that resonated with many.

Furthermore, isn’t Noita estimated to have sold more than 2 million copies on PC alone? That’s pretty fucking good for a 2D indie game, which completely obliterates your point, but hey, you don’t know WTF context means so you just spout whatever bullshit you “feel” is right without giving a second thought to its validity. Even if I bite and run with your bullshit narrative, Noita is such a poor example of whatever bullshit you dreamed up and trying to prove.

You could just admit you went overboard with your baseless narrative and move on, but na-uh, hubris has to get in the way, doesn’t it?

Oh, and let me address your Supergiant nonsense while I’m at it: Hades sold better than Bastion, Transistor, and Pyre because they weren’t as polished, replayable, or fun, but no, let’s just ignore all that and claim lack of innovation is the only selling factor here because having a nuanced take gets in the way of a finely crafted pile of bullshit.

Need an English lesson? Can you tell the difference between “this is the first Roguelite metroidvania” and “I don’t know any other game like this?”

Noita is such an innovative game you don’t even understand the scope of its innovation until you’re 60-100 hours in. I don’t even know if there’s ever been a roguelite metroidvania before Noita.

Unfortunately, this isn’t applicable to all genres. It took pure action games nearly a decade to get to a point where we get a handful of new indies a year, and they’re not all good because it’s difficult and costly to get the genre right. It’s on a better path now, but there’s still a giant gap between the current output and the output of far more popular genres.

Dafaq does this have to do with anything 😂 That doesn’t mean you get to dream up alternative history while fellating your favorite indie game, post it on a public forum, and expect not to be called out.

Shouldn’t be hard to praise your favorite game without making shit up.

I don’t even know if there’s ever been a roguelite metroidvania before Noita.

That’s just because your knowledge is lacking, not because Noita is the first roguelite metroidvania.

I don’t even play the genre and off the top of my head I remember A Robot Named Fight and Sundered releasing in 2017.

As it should be. I’m tired of a world where “whatever sells more” supersedes artistry, innovation, and charting new territories.

Art pushes boundaries, not complies with expectations.

I am reviving Quake as a fighting game.

It’s also a YT link, which’s not welcomed here (for good reasons)

Honestly, nice feature! I went through my wishlist and grouped everything by genre. Now, if I feel like picking up a new action shooter, I can just click the Action Shooter category I created and see games I’ll most likely enjoy. Cool!

Preferably on the new, shiny, and far more expensive PS5 where they can sell you even more overpriced games you don’t own.

I’m all for platforms offering more custom options on both sides: player and developer. I’m just pointing out achievements aren’t inherently bad or good; it mainly depends on the player’s preference, which’s why I don’t understand existential debates surrounding them.

For example, in another comment you pointed out achievement pop ups can ruin emotional moments, but, in an arcade game, an achievement pop up can be euphoric after practicing for hours and finally getting the 1CC.

Valve doesn’t force achievements on developers. But there is a very loud minority of gamers who love to demand. They will yell in the Steam forums, complain on Reddit, bang at the door of the developer’s Discord channel. It’s quite obnoxious.

This is obviously awful, but it happens on both sides: I’ve come across many anti achievement people giving condescending, unsolicited advice to achievement hunters on Reddit, Steam forums, Discord, and even here, and it’s obnoxious AF. It’s a people problem is my point.

I’ll never understand the discourse surrounding achievements. They’re typically very noninvasive; you can ignore them, disable them, hunt them, or do whatever you want.

It obviously depends on the preference of the player, the game, and how much thought went into the achievement. Not sure what else needs to be said.

People who look at 100% completion as peak gamer cred suck. People who walk around telling others to stop achievement hunting because it’s “sucking the joy out of gaming” equally suck.

It’s clearly a personal preference, so I just do my own thing and let others do their thing.

Frankly, I don’t think any of the originals are particularly good

In terms of what? And what’s your relationship like with the character action genre?

Combat peaked in GoW3 and it’s definitely the best western action game, IMO. OG trilogy badly needs a remaster and PC port, which I read is in the works, so that’s good.

I liked the freedom of expression GoW3 gave me. Like, you get one opening and you can fuck up the enemy in all sorts of ways in true action game spirit. Really good stuff and more western action games should’ve followed suit.