Pretty much any movement trying to make the world a better place in a way that might cut into someone’s profits. The people screaming “paid protesters” are, as always, projecting.
Lotta folks acted my privacy concerns with all the corpo service were conspiracy theories… but they keep being proven right XD
Mine is that everything being caffinated now is a ploy by Big Piss to get you to produce more piss for no extra money.
Wouldn’t it be little piss?
Ah the piss plot, happy you’re awake brother.
The vast majority of commonly spouted anti-PETA information is pure meat industry propaganda. They have spent so much money to paint PETA as cartoonishly evil, and people just bought it hook, line, and sinker. Yes, they have pulled some abrasive and controversial publicity stunts. No, they are not, as an organization, kidnapping and euthanizing healthy animals. They’re just passionate animal lovers, and just like within any large organization, people make mistakes. The difference is if someone makes a mistake in most charitable organizations it’s treated as such, where any mistake made by someone even peripherally related to PETA is attributed to the organization as a whole as a deliberate, malicious act.
If Bill Maher is on your board, and he was for some time, you’re douchebags.
What are you on about? What does that have to do with the fact that the vast majority of commonly spouted misinformation about PETA is pure propaganda? I don’t even like PETA, like I said, they’re abrasive and controversial. I think they hurt the message of animal rights activism more than help it. Two things can be true, they’re aggressive and annoying, as well as well-intentioned and commonly slandered.
I’m a normal guy on my bed sharing opinions.
It’s just ironic that you called PETA meat industry propaganda when the meat industry has spent ridiculous amounts of money to slander PETA so you would even have such a negative opinion. Their publicity activism is aggressive, annoying, and probably generally unproductive, but they aren’t some demonically evil organization like so many believe them to be. They’re just people.
No one asked if you’re on your bed. What you are, most importantly in this conversation, is NOT VEGAN.
Wasn’t one of the main anti-PETA websites run by that crazy Tiger King guy because they called out his animal abuse?
When I was 11/12 and first going vegetarian I was pretty disturbed by the material PETA included in their informational packet. Why would anyone want a poster or a sticker of an animal at slaughter let alone multiple image options for both formats? I was scared my parents would find it and think I was into some kind of cult.
(I don’t think they’re an industry plant though, they just don’t have the most effective tactics).
Okay so yes, I’m vegan and I don’t love PETAs tactics and some of their practices are not the same choices I would make. I’m going to leave it at that, I will not debate carnists about PETA. Just like I try not to criticise leftist movements in non-leftist spaces and will focus on specific elements and not write them off entirely.
I do think a variety of tactics is important, just like in leftist movements. It takes a lot of different approaches to tackle these huge systemic problems. No one is making me do street theater. I can choose not to like it or think it’s effective. But it doesn’t mean it never reaches anyone or that people don’t enjoy that outlet.
Edit: I should probably explain how that connects lol - so even if I don’t like it and people think it gives vegans a bad image, I don’t think the meme is literally true. People will take issue with even the mildest perceived criticism. I am very careful to not discuss it in some circumstances but if someone asks for dietary restraints and I answer sometimes even that makes them defensive. You can’t win.
Someone once pointed out to me that if non-vegans’ critiques of how PETA operates actually worked to further PETA’s goals, those making the critiques wouldn’t be non-vegans
That sounds like a textbook example of confirmation bias 😅 It also ignores the idea that it takes a lot of different tactics to reach different people.
I do know people who were swayed by PETA and I think those are the folks who end up taking that approach themselves. They might not immediately jump into it, but they do it because it worked on them.
Conversely, that’s why I focus on antispeciesm and that it isn’t some giant sacrifice.
One of the important tactics to reach different people is not to use derogatory names like “carnists” to describe them. Even if you have a good point to make, I am less likely to listen to you if you’re calling me names.
The whole idea of a multitude of tactics is that some tactics work on some people and other tactics work on other people. I know of many people who wouldn’t pay attention to any criticism if they were being coddled and their oppressive behavior being tiptoed around, whereas being ridiculed and called names that accurately describe their unexamined cruelty and hypocrisy is what actually gets through to them.
Also, maybe you deserve to be called those names and it’s the silent witnesses seeing the “debate” who are the ones whose minds are being changed. There’s a real self-centered arrogance to assume that when your hypocrisy is being called out that it’s because those calling it out are trying to change your mind as an individual, and even worse to think that you deserve to be babied and pampered into doing so.
and even worse to think that you deserve to be babied and pampered into doing so.
Exactly this last line. Perpetrators of oppression and violence don’t have the right to chose how they’re criticized, protested, and eventually, hopefully, defeated.
“Carnist” is derogatory? From an etymological analysis, it seems rather apt
Etymology doesn’t prove a word isn’t a slur. Example: the n-word. It does just mean black.
Famously we didn’t do mean things like “name calling” to slave owners and Nazi slaughterhouse officers and they listened and stopped being bad.
spoiler
Just kidding! STFU and be better, asshole.
Carnist sounds sick as hell tho.
I’m not trying to convert you tho 🤷♀️
Yes, but not because they’re trying to divert attention away from quiet, polite, easily ignored vegans, but as an alternative to orgs like ELF/ALB that do direct action against slaughterhouses, offices, spike trees, stuff that threatens to make these companies non-viable.
I think people are already predisposed to dismiss vegans or make fun of them for various psychological reasons. I only mention my veganism when I have to and even then I get all the weird comments about protein, etc. One cousin asked me if I would eat a chicken if they paid me 1 million dollars or some shit. I live in Morocco and people who make these comments don’t know PETA
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
Do you suppose malicious people know about this?
If you consider malicious people stupid…
never attrbute to stupidity what can be adequately be explained by malice.
???
PETA is sus as freak. (They euthanize completely fine or treatable animals, and they even took a little gal’s dog)
I don’t have a problem with animal rights stuff and veganism, I have a problem with PETA.
I don’t have a problem with animal rights stuff and veganism
How tolerant of you /s
Completely fine and treatable animals.
They do sometimes euthanize healthy animals, just like your local Humane Society does. The thing is, there are no-kill shelters in Norfolk, VA. When they turn away animals because they’re at capacity, those animals either end up at kill shelters, or on the street where they’re likely to kill other animals and die a worse death.
The employees who took Maya the Chihuahua were tasked with collecting stray dogs from that neighborhood who were harassing local livestock. One of those dogs was an unattended brown female chihuahua with no tags, and they accidentally picked up the wrong unattended brown female chihuahua with no tags. You know what happened to the employees who did that? They were fired, because they didn’t follow PETA’s own guidelines about keeping animals for a certain amount of time before euthanizing them.
Sidenote, maybe you should question why that family let this chihuahua out on the street in a neighborhood where there were stray dogs attacking livestock, and also why PETA didn’t kidnap their other dogs, who were safely contained in their yard at the time.
Some further reading. Please don’t disregard it just because it comes from PETA’s website. If you disagree with anything they say, you should be able to verbalize that disagreement
Pardon me while I go on a tangent. I worked at a no-kill shelter for 10 years, so I think I’m pretty well qualified to say that kill shelters like PETA’s are necessary. There were cats and dogs at our shelter that we got as puppies and kittens who lived there until their teens. It feels nice to know that we’re not going to euthanize an animal just because it hasn’t been adopted, until you think about the fact that we have a limited amount of space for animals.
A dog takes up a whole dog run. A cat takes up a whole cat kennel. There is limited space for animals at shelters, and they’re always at capacity. How many perfectly healthy and adoptable animals did we turn away to be dumped on the street or sent to a kill shelter so that we could keep a chronically ill or otherwise unadoptable animal alive for years and years and years? You save one life, and condemn dozens of others to death. A no-kill shelter is just a deferred kill shelter.
…sus as freak…
Jesus fucking christ…
That’s not what they are saying. They are saying PETA is just a bunch of morons, not calculating meat people.
I’m like 90% sure if you look up whatever make you think PETA is going around stealing and euthanizing pets, you’ll find an industry plant.
Named Nathan Winograd. Dude would condemn any number of wild animals to a grizzly and painful death to maintain his superiority complex about euthanizing companion animals. It’s obviously so much better to let disease spread, create more feral companion animals, and condemn more tens of thousands of prey animals to death than it is to euthanize one (1) cat.
I don’t think vegans care about their image. They care that you stop putting money in this industry
Am vegan, can confirm.
The one conspiracy theory I believe is that, generally speaking, conspiracy theories are psychological operations to distract from class consciousness.
I personally believe they’re fairly inevitable - most people’s minds want order, and it feels better for there to be a conspiracy than acknowledging it’s all just chaos. We’ve evolved to match patterns, so that’s what we do.
Way harder to be angry at the reality than it is to be angry at the imaginary cabal manipulating everyone.
Obviously we are not ruled by a secret cabal of satanic reptiles or what have you, but it’s not all just chaos either. If it was, wealth and power would flow in all directions rather than consistently upwards. That is the conspiracy.
What we’re dealing with is a transnational class of capitalists and imperialists that shape the world we all live in.
This class is not a monolith. They even go to war with each other. Well, through our blood anyway, but the point is they make our laws, extract our labor and poison our minds with useless conspiracy theories to distract from the real problem which is capitalism.
I think at this point we’ve all realized PETA is a trash organization, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say they’re funded by the meat industry; I’m not going to forget that while the Gaza genocide was going on, the only thing they had to say was that they wanted to rescue donkeys out of Gaza; Not the people of Gaza, but the donkeys; I hear all the time that humans are animals too, but apparently you’re less than that if you’re a person from the global South being genocided by a Western government. They’re either zionists, or just your average white liberal.
I know you must be vegan and you’re not possibly bringing up the Gaza genocide to relieve your cognitive dissonance for partaking in the animal genocide, because you care so much about our tactics for animal liberation. But man, those non vegans that would say shit like that. Talk about westerners degrading the Palestinian cause to their mere political identity and self-interested performance, right?
I feel like PETA can get pretty misanthropic, so I do have to wonder if it’s racism or just not giving a shit about people. Wouldn’t be surprised at all by both, though.
Occam’s Razor says otherwise
Either way, I’m still going to eat chicken and eggs.
Vegans: -exist-
People like you: DON’T MIND ME LOUDLY MENTION I LOVE MEAT
The point is, the lecturing and loud statements swing either way. And, either way, they’re no fun.
Honey please, don’t pretend vegans aren’t out here constantly demonizing and berating people for living natural lives and eating natural diets the only way they can. The old joke, how can you tell someone is vegan? Don’t worry, they will tell you.
It is always baffling how persons who chose to live alternative lifestyles feel the need to tell everyone to conform to their objectively unnatural diet/lifestyle.
The vegan proselytizing jokes are so tired. Do you actually know any vegans? I do, many actually, and the only time they bring up their diets is when discussing plans to eat. They have never pushed me for not being vegan nor shamed me, whereas I’ve been harassed by meat eaters more than once for being vegetarian, as if it personally offends them. If your entire source for “vegans are pushy” are people on the Internet, you need to get outside more.
Its an extremely loud minority of vegans on the internet
It drives me crazy that people extrapolate a few terminally online weirdos to entire groups. Vegans are no more a monolith than any other group. My vegan friends don’t shame me for not being vegan, just as I don’t shame them for driving a gas guzzling car, or purchasing unethically manufactured goods. We all pick our battles. We live under an unethical economic system where there is no way to be perfect. We choose the things that are worth it to us, which is why I’m not vegan, despite minimizing my consumption in other areas. Meat eaters have this totally skewed view of vegans as a whole based on a stereotype that only represents a small minority.
Like it or not a large amount of vegan discussion online involves terminally online individuals which makes it seem like a larger percent than it actually is to your average person even of it is inaccurate.
Sure action can and should be taken to change that but that is how it currently is.
Let me shame you then. Go vegan. You’re a coward for making excuses. Be brave for the voiceless and the unseen trillions that the 99% of humanity victimizes.
We live under an unethical economic system where there is no way to be perfect.
Said the slaver in the antebellum south before cracking a whip.
Listen, you’re not “one of the good carnists.” Your vegan friends have given up on you or never saw potential in you. Don’t feel proud of that. Have shame for the bad things you do.
I don’t disagree they should go vegan if they can (and most people realistically can), but doesn’t carnist imply that they eat meat? In an earlier comment in this thread they mentioned being vegetarian.
Wow, found the vegan!
Did you read my comment? I’m not vegan…
objectively unnatural
The least you could do, if you’re not a complete psychopath, is just admit that you’re going to eat meat, no matter how wrong it is. This psuedo-rationalist stuff just doesnt hold up to any scrutiny.
You’re a hypocrite. It’s ok, we all are on some level.
deleted by creator
Is it definitively wrong to eat meat? All animals die, should their flesh be wasted? Since you will eventually die is it wrong that you were born? Isn’t it wrong to deny that cow a few years of munching on grass in the sun lit fields? If it wasn’t bred for food consumption, it would never have existed.
Is it definitively wrong to eat meat?
You’re not sitting around waiting until animals die to eat them. The meat industry is not waiting until an animal dies of old age, disease, or a freak accident.
According to the definition of veganism that would technically be vegan.
The Vegan Society defines veganism as: Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose
It’s not exploitative or cruel to eat flesh which died for natural reasons. It is exploitative and cruel to prop up an industry which treats animals like objects to be slaughtered painfully at your convenience.
Since you eventually die, is it wrong that you were born?
This is a non-sequitor that implies that it’s okay to kill animals because they eventually die. Ethically, there’s a huge difference between killing someone and someone dying a natural death.
Isn’t it wrong to deny that cow a few years of munching on grass in the sun lit fields?
You don’t only eat grass-fed beef if you ever go out to eat at restaurants. Most cows aren’t grass-fed because we literally don’t have enough grass on this planet to feed them all. Also, grass-fed cows produce more methane, which is a massive contributor to climate change.
Beef cows are slaughtered at 18 months old, and dairy cows are slaughtered at 4-6 years old when their milk production drops. Cows can live 15-20 years naturally, with the oldest cow being 48 years old. Doing the math, that’s like if I killed you when you were 18.
Stop pretending what we do to animals is nice. Just admit you don’t really care about what they go through and would rather eat a burger.
If it wasn’t bred for food consumption, it would’ve never existed.
That’s an argument for existence having moral weight. By this logic, all humans would have as many babies as possible because we’re depriving potential babies of their existence.
Or are saying that it’s okay to do whatever we want to someone, as long as they “owe us” for being the cause of their existence? In that case, I beg you not to have kids.
That’s an argument for existence having moral weight. By this logic, all humans would have as many babies as possible because we’re depriving potential babies of their existence.
I think the catholic cultists would agree with this…
So existance has no moral weight? If we can’t keep an animal with full vet care and comfort to their maximum age we shouldn’t let them procreate? What about wild animals? I’m not giving answers, just asking questions because I hope you might realize that it’s not so cut and dry. Many practices of the current meat industry are pretty offensive, but there are alternatives.
But you’re welcome to stick blindly to your meat=bad ideology. Simple people need simple rules, and that’s ok.No, the only people who matter are the ones who are currently alive. People who are alive can experience suffering. People who don’t exist can’t. You can’t say, “but if I never bred the cow to eat, the cow would’ve never existed! So that means it’s a good thing to breed cows.”
You’re trying to say that because something has the potential to exist, that that potential has moral weight. That’s what the argument for existence is.
But that exact same logic can be used for this: “But if I never forced those women into having kids, the kids would’ve never existed! That’s why it’s good to force women to have kids.”
You see how that makes no sense?
Anyway.
It’s pretty simple to realize that if there’s an alternative to killing and torturing animals for your 10-15 minutes of pleasure at dinner, then you should seek out that alternative. Just because it’s a simple idea doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
Also if you read my post at all, you’d realize I never said meat was bad. I literally pointed out that you’re not waiting around for an animal to die peacefully of old age before eating it. You’re the one simplifying my points and then calling me simple. lol.
If you scroll up:
It’s not exploitative or cruel to eat flesh which died for natural reasons. It is exploitative and cruel to prop up an industry which treats animals like objects to be slaughtered painfully at your convenience.
You say there are alternatives to the meat industry. That’s called veganism.
You rape them into existence. Stop raping animals.
Chickens, seriously, are made for food. They’re cool little animals. Curious. A little fun, and a little annoying at times. They make pleasant sounds. But consider them. Small package, eggs, and yummy meat. Easy enough to deal with in small numbers too, IF you’re willing to clean the chicken shit out of their coop and all the rest.
I think the big problem for many is factory farming. I doubt any of us likes seeing those open cages stuffed with leghorns stacked high on a semi trailer in the open wind of the interstate. Looks miserable.
Is it so bad if you’re personally involved in the entire process of your meat?
It’s November. There’s about to be a lot of freezers filled with venison. Hunters will shoot the animal, and many will hang the carcass in their own garage and butcher it themselves, and fill a freezer. I say this as someone who loves to watch the deer in my front yard. I watched another pair of fawns grow past their spots this year. But I’ll still eat one.
Drove past a cow farm in California once. They were stacked shoulder to shoulder in there. Mud, no grass. Looked miserable. That bothers me. Venison in the freezer in November or backyard chickens do not. The latter shows more respect imo.
Chickens, seriously, are made for food.
“The earth, seriously was made for fracking.” As in humans have inbred them to be obese in a few weeks? That they would pop out enough nutrients to create another life multiple times a day to be your breakfast instead of only in the spring for the actual purpose of procreation? Then yes. But do you have the authority to sentence a life to be your food? No, you don’t. It’s morally unjustifiable. Stop killing beings that don’t want to be killed just because you want to.
Edit: format
I’ve seen cows feeding like that, but then they go out for a while. I’m in Canada, maybe it’s different.
I wish I could’ve taken a pic while driving, This was not like a normal farm around a feeding trailer, or the dairy line to the barn to be milked. The cows looked like they were stuffed into that “pasture” of mud. Like there were 3-4x the number there should’ve been in that space.
The idea that vegans just announce themselves constantly isn’t true for the vast majority of vegans. Sometimes you do need to mention it, like when picking a restaurant in a social group with people who don’t yet know you’re a vegan. I do the same as a vegetarian, and I did the same when I was a vegan. You know who was very loud though? Annoying people who interrogated me on how dared I not eat meat (and this was a whole lot more common when I was a vegan).
Just stfu.
But it is true on the Internet.
Caught another one!
People with any “restricted diet” (I don’t think animal bodies are valid food, so I don’t consider it a restriction) have to remind people of their diet rather frequently—people eat food a lot, and veganism is rare.
Also, veganism is prefectly natural. The massive amounts of caged animals? That’s the unnatural thing. This is just appeal to nature (a logical fallacy), anyways.
If you are a human you are an omnivore and if you’re diet doesn’t include animal proteins, that’s a restriction. It doesn’t matter if you can supplement or source it elsewhere. Our bodies have evolved to ingest, digest, and expell animal matter and plant matter. Willingly choosing not to ingest one or the other, as you do, is a restriction.
But which will you eat first?
Yeah I enjoy eating a hamburger in front of a cow.
Look at me! I’m masculine! I’m eating meat! I’m not doing it because I was brainwashed into wanting such a thing and being told how to achieve it by the people selling it! I’m just fuckin EDGY at these soy losers!
Guitar riff! Skateboard! Backwards baseball cap! Crossed arms! Don’t mess with me, buster!
That’s… disturbing.
Cows are so affectionate though!
Cows are probably not going to last long given everything that’s happening. They take up too much spave and resources. Pretty much anyone responsible with a backyard can have 2-4 chickens.
Crows have proven themselves to be exceptionally intelligent and resourceful. They may well outlast us.
crow advice
CAWW CAWW
I believe they said cows?
Oops.
Domesticated cows are cooked.
Problem is that dairy production results in more cows (because you can only milk during/after pregnancy). So, unless dairy consumption goes way down, we’ll always have excess cows kicking about, which makes them very cheap for the meat industry.
I have a medium-sized garden in my house with a few chickens and a tree.
That’s how I oppose chicken factory farms.
Please oppose extracting resources out of chicken for your benefit, at their cost. Please oppose commodifying animals and leave them alone. Why don’t vegans eat backyard eggs?
You’re kind of unbelievable to make a post like this when you’re not even vegan. THIS is the antivegan psyop.
Thanks for sharing that article. I wasn’t aware of the health issues and other complications from backyard chickens. I still opposed it on the basis of not being able to take people at their word when they claim to take care of their chickens, as the profit motive pulls you against the chickens’ best interests, but I appreciate the additional information.
Aww that’s so sweet. Thank you! Yeah like…first thing I ask people with backyard chicken is where they got them from (it’s a breeder). And most people that have backyard chicken aren’t even serious enough to be “completely vegan except this.” Let alone everyone that imvokes the “what about backyard chicken” excuse. So it’s a garbage distraction.
It’s a lot more respectable when people are actually completely vegan except x, when they make excuses about oh but I can’t give up x. Bar’s in hell.
At least I’m honest. (Unlike PETA)
PETA is not.
I don’t care if you’re honest. I care you stop hurting others. How about you go vegan before lecturing vegans about how to do veganism correctly. I couldn’t give two shits about what non vegans like you think about PETA. Only makes me think that their “aggressive tactics” worked on you and made you uncomfortable about your complicity.
