- cross-posted to:
- enshitification@slrpnk.net
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- enshitification@slrpnk.net
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
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Once again, I pray for the time when China floods the market with GPUs, RAM, and storage to the point where all these technocapitalists get fucked.
Fuck renting shit.
If they did that, the technocapitalists would just make Chinese hardware illegal.
“Would?” They’re already doing that.
So much for free markets, eh? More like, we’ll invade or sanction whoever to have freedom in their markets, but the instant our markets can’t compete, all of a sudden regulation is good.
If Americans cannot get their treats and the bread and Circus stops, then they will resort to other means of expressing dissent.
The USA is highly individualistic and materialistic. If they can’t get their treats, then stochastic crime will take place (not that I’m against that, fuck capital).
I totally agree, which is another reason we should not expect China to save us. Their ideal world is one where Americans finally take power from the capitalist class.
My ideal world is that but we immediately also start to undermine the Chinese as well through decentralized production and logistics so good it makes over seas shipping too expensive. Mind you I want that for the entire world, you cannot fathom the arousal I feel at the idea of a Trans-Berringia trains bridge to connect the logistics of the old and new world, also the Trans-African rail should be completed to such an extent that goods in the Congo are as cheap as goods in LA.
That’s my ideal world too though. You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Yes, it’s also my ideal world. Sorry if I came across as pro-capitalist 🤮
Exactly. And they will use the excuse that the chinese hardware might spy on us, all while the hardware they allow us to buy is doing that openly.
Classic
Iirc One of the previous heads of xbox said that they’re intentionally trying to kill the xbox brand over time by enshittyfying it (or words to that effect).
This might very wel be that. They know damn well this will piss people off.
What is the end goal of killing Xbox? Not having to deal with consoles and just concentrate on computers?
I don’t know. I mean I wouldn’t put it past themto try and merge the whole gaming experience into the Windows ecosystem. We all know what geniuses they are doubling down on the whole slop ridden W11 thing.
This would be so dumb… and at the same time so possible!
Execs totally disconnected from the players base having no damn clue how they’re going to react.
Players are going to be so pissed they’re much less likely to buy anything through MS ever again, but that won’t compute in an exec’s mind.
That sounds like some exec thought it would work. Maybe they saw the success of steam and want a piece of that pie without having to put out hardware? I might be too old to understand, but if that’s the future of console gaming, I don’t want a part of it.
And it’s this kind of shit that has ruined my love for tech. It’s all soulless dystopian slop they want you paying for monthly for the rest of your life. Fuck all these techno dweebs. It’s a shame all the normies will go along with this…
They’ll average $1700/year to play the fucking games they already spent $100 to borrow indefinitely? Fuck, gaming sounds so stupid now.
$1700/yr is 12 hours of gaming each day at $0.40/hr, which is more than the $0.24 you’d actually be paying. Nobody gaming that much would otherwise be spending $100/yr on games in any case.
This is a very stupid thing for the industry, but your numbers are hyperbolic and anti-useful.
ah but what about the hardware rental fees
Let’s say you play a game that costs 40c to stream, and it’s every day for a year; it will be ~400$
For 2-3 hours per day is what you mean I guess?
Because 400 is pretty close to the amount of days in a year, meaning you would have a bit more than a buck per day.
Yeah, and the shit is that it is 0.24 to 0.40, not just 0.24
If you refer to the article, it’s price tiering. You would be consistently paying $0.24.
“Indefinitely”, huh? They can just rent it forever? Sounds like a missed opportunity for shareholders, I bet we can get that line even higher
Indefinitely just means unspecified. Could be 3000 years, could be 15 minutes; it implies “until further notice” depending on the whims of the noticer. See “suspended indefinitely” in crime drama shows, where they’re back on payroll by the end of the episode
Well yes. Hence the joke
That’s why you ditch consoles, get a PC and buy only from stores that don’t do this rubbish.
Go along? They’ll be zealots demanding everyone get on board, just like heavily exploited console players are today.
They did it, they made something worse than google Stadia!
And we’ve come full circle back to arcades. Just with extra(fewer?) steps now.
They didn’t used to make us buy the arcade machine first.
Very true. Gotta think of those shareholders and make it more expensive somehow.
Where is the line for gamers? They think you’re marks.
I’ve called this so many times over… It’s not just going to be xbox… it’s going to be PCs in general, With AI data centers raising up the price on all hardware, They are already making moves in the government on banning routers. The plan is going to be for personal computers and hardware to leave the world. Either price them out of consumer reach or flat out outlaw them. We get thin clients like stadia, Luna etc… Actually having a personal computer capable of running software itself will be considered a national security threat. Why wouldn’t you keep your stuff in the cloud where the government can audit it, companies can make sure you aren’t pirating or running unapproved illegal LLMs that could make bombs etc…
Ok, whats your answer for all commercial companies without their own data centers then? You think they’d all be happy to give up their computers/laptops as well, or pay so much higher prices in the future?
Running with thin clients for office workers has been default for large corporations for literally decades. Hell it’s even done in engineering heavy professions too. It’s the entire business model of companies like Citrix, and it’s extremely popular.
As for small(er) businesses, no they’re probably not going to like it, but they hold little to no sway in the matter, so their opinions don’t matter compared to the multi-billion international businesses that fuel this.
And outsourcing IT infrastructure is wildly popular for businesses of all sizes, because it’s less hassle and direct management when you just pay a third party to deal with it.
The default? I’ve never worked for a corporation with thin clients as the main workstation for employees. The only place I worked at with thin clients was a federal government office.
Can’t believe this nonsense has so many updoots.
I think you are overestimating just how many big companies use a thin client-like system. But I admit I might be underestimating it. Out of personal experience, I used to work for a pretty big global company and every employee got their own work laptop to use. And that was a company with 30.000+ employees worldwide. So maybe that is my bias in this, and I would think companies like that wouldn’t so easily give up their digital sovereignty.
Would you consider that laptop particularly robust? Was your rapid compute power critical to your role?
In my very similar case, the answers were: No and No
A lot of the work I did was subtly cloud-based. If the internet was slow, “local” tasks slowed significantly.
They don’t have to give up digital sovereignty. They’lll just subscribe to the Executive plan which grants them more control for cheaper than 30,000 laptops
Oh sweet summer child no it is not. I’ve spent 25+ years in corporate now. Aside from set situations like BCP we are not using thin clients. They’re cumbersome, an absolute bitch to manage, and quite frankly they’re shit (underpowered) and not flexible.
Sure you may get some pockets of orgs that use thin clients across the board but I highly doubt it’s common.
I work in IT for a large healthcare system that runs its EMR (electronic medical record) entirely through Citrix. So yes, yes we are using thin clients. And so is our largest competitor.
Aren’t anecdotes fun, my sweet summer child? You shouldn’t speak with such authority when you have no idea what you’re talking about.
The initial claim was that thin clients are the “default” for large companies, and yes we can confidently say that’s bullshit.
I’m not surprised that healthcare could be an exception, given all the pii that is dealt with there. But thin clients are not the default at most companies.
It’s insane how people can’t just admit they they’re blatantly wrong about something and instead play this gaslighting game where they pretend something is unknowable.
The global size of the thin client market is less than $3 billion. Do you honestly believe that covers most “large corporations” on the planet? I guarantee you that employers with thin clients as the default workstation aren’t just a minority, they’re a niche market. https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/articles/thin-clients-global-strategic-business-103200706.html
This is the fun thing about The Internet is that neither of us have any idea what we are talking about.
What I can tell you is in finance the use of thin clients is niche and is not a replacement for a laptop/desktop. It’s been tried time and time again.
Yes we virtualize applications using Citrix but again those are niche.
Now, healthcare may or may not be a different beast altogether.
Question, how are users accessing EMR. Are they using a thin client workstation for that along with their word, excel, outlook, etc. or are they logging into a portal from their company issued laptop/desktop?
I’m at a hospital right now and everything here is powered off of laptops hooked up to portable physical workstations.
Regardless, I digress. I don’t give enough of a shit to care further lol.
I can assure you at least one large US bank uses thin clients extensively.
IDK, in broadcast infrastructure it’s thin clients and virtual machines all the way down, and yes it causes tons of problems.
If they aren’t rich enough, then they are in the same boat as us. This ain’t exactly new… AWS workspaces, Azure Cloud PCs, Google docs, office 365, one drive. The tech has been creeping it’s way into businesses for the last 10 years. Obviously they are getting hammered right now by the raise in prices of new PCs. As the prices go up, they will have to make decisions.
This is exactly what european digital sovereignity is all about
My job trialled azure cloud PCs a couple of years ago.
It was pretty good from my point of view as a user.
However the cost was higher than $8000 laptops we have, so we didn’t adopt it.
Wonder if it’s still the same. Guessing the cloud is still suffering the same hardware price hike anyway.
Running a comparison, assuming it’s in use 8 hours a day 5 days a week, looks like a CPC runs around 640-760 a year (just googling quickly checking the numbers). course that’s just basic hourly office computer, meant to be comparable to what normally would be normal office computer. Didn’t bother to look and see what say an 8,000 high end graphics card laptop or something would compare… of course if your company was doing 8,000 laptops “a couple years ago”, those are probably at least 15,000 laptops today.
“Your company data is safe when using our virtual computers.” *Wink
And you all think all those companies will just fold their cards and go with it? I don’t buy that.
I don’t think it’s going to be an overnight thing, It will start voluntarily, as the price equation shifts. the complications wasn’t worth the savings when office PCs were 1500 a pop, but what about when they are 3000 a pop and projected to hit 5000 next year. After more of them make the switch… then say an announcement can happen that microsoft is lessening it’s support for on prem servers and workstations, patches will be less frequent. and now it’s a risk assessment as well.
I dont understand the reasoning behind people seem to think prices for components will climb for ever and ever without generating more supply. if RAM becomes obscenely profitable for long enough others will get in on the act and produce their own to get some of those profits. The only reason people arent yet is that everyone thinks there is a bubble pop coming down the pipe (me included).
so the two options are:
-
Bubble pops-demand from hyperscalers vanishes, prices collapse
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Bubble doesn’t pop, more supply comes online due to pent up demand, prices stabilize then come down over time
Neither involve cyberpunk dystopias of cackling supervillians monopolizing PCs
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Back in my day it was called an arcade video game.
Except you didn’t have to buy your own arcade machine before you started shoveling quarters into it.
Yeah, back in my day the games came on a cassette tape. Sometimes the tapes got tangled up or broke, but when you bought it, you owned it.
Oh, and you’d get those magazines with pages of code for a game - you’d spend a day typing it in and never be able to figure out the tiny error you’d made.
Actually, games are so much better these days. It’s just unfortunate that capitalism.
Important point of clarification- this is about streaming from the cloud, using an Xbox or GPU in the cloud to play the game. This makes sense as buying the game or not, you are still using cloud resources.
Xbox Remote Play, which runs the game on your home Xbox and streams from your house to wherever you are, is free.
this makes sense
No it doesn’t
Well, what you say does, but running games in the cloud doesn’t make sense in any logical way except for that that the owner of said cloud will be walking to the bank laughing his ass off
Oh I agree paying to rent a cloud xbox when you have one sitting at home is fucking stupid. A lot of cloud everything is fucking stupid, and I say that as an IT person who’s been fighting cloud-itis since the term ‘cloud computing’ became a thing.
I see this as a feature most people wouldn’t actually use.
Only use case I’d have for it is wanting a game to render at higher specs while travelling at like a hotel.
I bought a steam deck for a vacation when it came out. Used it on the flight and that’s it. Never played games except at the airport so I was fine rendering at the steam deck.
Idk, I think you’re immediately jumping to the conclusions of “they’re trying to make us all rent everything”, which, while most likely isn’t wrong, is also obscuring some potential for “Hey look, I can play less-response-time-intensive xbox games on my fricking phone with good wifi, because of amazing compression technology”
This is an important note, the headline grabbed my attention but isn’t entirely accurate.
Ya at current memory and server gpu prices it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they aren’t even making any money at 40c/hr.
there was something the other day about microsoft having warehouses of GPUs for datacenters that arent even built yet.
They could probably take 1% of those to cover it without any additional costs for them.
They aren’t the same GPUs that are in Xboxs. those are nvidia GPUs eg the nv72 or gb300. There’s no way to make them compatible with Xbox. Source: my unc works at Microsoft data centers.
Why do they need to be compatible with an Xbox? They could just use the PC version for streaming
Xbox and PC versions aren’t exactly 1:1. Plus, those are extremely expensive GPUs to not be selling for top dollar to the AI bros instead.
Edit- I’m leaving out things like architecture, shaders, tensor cores, NVIDIA vs AMD, SXM vs PCI-E, etc.
Not 1:1 sure, but I’m struggling to think of a meaningful difference that would make the PC version an inferior one besides incompetent porting.
Xbox cloud servers are literally 5 motherboards: 1 management board and 4 Xbox ones. Developers can optimize for a single configuration rather than bake in support for multiple ones. Once it works on an Xbox dev kit, it works on all Xboxs including cloud, console, and handheld. SDKs are making that a thing in the past, but it’s not perfect.
those GPUs were sold for top dollar to AI bros.
its why microsoft has so many of them, sitting in a warehouse, waiting to be used, for stupid AI bullshit.
They are sitting in the warehouse because there aren’t enough other parts (e.g. DIMMs), power, or data centers for them. And as stupid as AI bullshit is, they are paying more than gamers by orders of magnitude.
>laughs in piracy
Rent-seeking is definitely a sign of a financially-healthy company. Yup. No red flags there.
More than that is a sign that this idea that the next quarter must be always better than the past one cannot work indefinitely.
Rent-seeking is just late stage capitalism. You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy.
Whatever. I would never allow an Xbox in my house. When they came out it was obviously just another shit product from a shit company. Hard pass.
The upside is hopefully it will just continue to alienate their market.
Halo 2 on Xbox was kind of a blast. But otherwise yeah
More like a phenomenon. Things come and go though. I don’t play games anymore; I don’t even know what’s popular.
Halo died a long time ago when I was still playing. Halo: Reach felt like the start of its decline.
Xbox Developers: Hell yeah! Playstation is shooting themselves in the foot. All we have to do is sit back and we’ll kill it.
Xbox Business : or… hold my beer.
game streaming. Can no one read?
