People are the same about YouTube. They hate the treatment of creators, the content theft that is rampant and almost encouraged by YouTube, and the colossal mountain of AI slop content-
But they lose their shit when you so much as suggest they stop using it.
I don’t lose my shit about it; I just point out the catch 22:
Creators don’t want to leave their established bases, and viewers are gonna go where the creators are.
Get some big creators to move somewhere, anywhere, else and their fans will follow and likely cause a domino effect with other creators. Yelling at the viewers ain’t gonna help a damn thing. There’s basically no content elsewhere. We need to yell at the creators.
Boycotting YouTube outright will not hurt Google nearly as much as it would hurt the creators you are trying to help out.
Nebula is small, it still only has a tiny fraction of the YouTube library, and you have to pay to access it up front.
Also, near non-existent marketing budget. People can’t be expected to magically inuit the existence of an alternative platform. At some point, you need to advertise your existence and get your content creators to do the same.
The only creator I’ve ever heard mention Nebula even once was Abigail Thorn. And even she only talked about it during a couple of projects from years back.
Everyone who is anyone in the indie space just goes with Patreon instead.
If people left YouTube, the creators leave YouTube.
I barely use YouTube at all anymore. But I’m also shelling out north of $50/mo on various artists on Patreon.
I don’t really expect other people to follow suit, if they don’t have that kind of disposable income.
Incidentally, I also have a subscription to Amazon Prime and HBO Max. The first, because Amazon is functionally the USPS at this point. The second, because I get it free through my ISP.
I’m not going to cancel either one of them, any more than I’m going to give up my car to protest the fossil fuel industry.
Good on ya for supporting content creators, I’ve done this a few times myself a while back (won’t do it anymore), however- nothing will ever change so long as people keep showing YouTube that they’re okay with things as they are by helping bump up their numbers.
Selective activism and cherry-picking isn’t going to move the needle. Strength of conviction, and an adherence to standards will.
nothing will ever change so long as people keep showing YouTube that they’re okay with things
The people “using” YouTube in the economic sense aren’t the viewers, they’re the advertisers.
Selective activism and cherry-picking isn’t going to move the needle.
Neither is stomping your foot and being mad at the anonymous video consumer or ad firm.
Might as well get angry about people watching the Super Bowl or the next big Marvel Movie.
If you want to advocate for an actual alternative thing, go for it. But just arguing in the negative is hollow, especially when you’re arguing with a statistical person rather than an actual audience.
I’m sort of guilty of this. Id love to switch to something else but no where has anything close to the content. I was going to switch to twitch for streaming but that’s fucking Amazon as well.
I mean. I just stopped using it. The same as I did with Facebook and Twitter. Boycotting is boycotting. Either one stands on their principles and backs up their beliefs and standards, or they just like saying they do because it makes them look good.
It’s not supposed to be convenient. It’s supposed to be effective. If you use their platform, you support their practices. Period. That’s how it is.
I can’t say how many times I suggested people stop using that shit in comments on posts where people do nothing but whine about how fucking abysmally shitty YouTube is. And when I do- I get;
“But where else can I go to see muh vidyos?!”
Nowhere.
These people need to be introduced to the hard truth and reality of what boycotting really means. Or they need to get off the pot.
I’m doing “elbows up”. No money I have knowingly flows to an American company or individual. Period. And I do my due diligence: I try to find the goods that are American but branded locally.
Is it inconvenient? Fuck yes! But you know what’s more inconvenient? Funding the economy of the nation that is actively attacking mine.
And another fantastic point! Absolutely well said my friend!
And I’ll add-
Not enough people walk the walk at all anymore. If the endorphins are received, and the clout is favorable enough, all it takes are words, because words are all someone needs nowadays to convince others. All that’s required is to just shout into the void that you hate a thing. Then, just Hoover up the validation of your peers, and you’re free to then continue consuming said thing.
When people grow some balls and lean what strength of conviction is, things will change. But right now, Toutube knows they own these clowns and they don’t have the balls to walk away.
I think you need some education on the matter since a “boycott” by individuals is not putting any real pressure on anyone without the numbers and a plan behind it. That is just the truth. That you don’t like it changes nothing.
I highly doubt you are boycotting every single evil corp out there so just like so many you draw the line at your own feet for no reason
Its more important to you to tell everyone how pure YOU are and how stupid they are instead of putting any real effort behind your “boycotting”
I get that its very frustrating watching people throwing money at all these horrible people but the reality is that those horrible people prefere us being mad at each other and you are doing their bidding by playing this game.
We really need to be more pragmatic about this. You can shop at amazon and at the same time support every single regulation against them. We don’t have a youtube or amazon problem we have a structural problem and this doesn’t go away no matter how much you don’t use either of them.
Ask Kentucky bourbon manufacturers how the Canadian boycott of their product is going. Or ask California wineries. Or ask pretty much every major tourist site in the USA how pissing off Canadians has worked out for them. Or … well, the list is long. I’ll let you look it up.
It is the concerted action of millions of individuals drawing a line in the sand that kills these fuckers.
Those examples proof my point though? It was a WHOLE COUNTRY organizing a boycott where even the industry is in in it with a specific goal and easily available alternatives with very little discomfort. Its not all american products either.
So you have a big enough number of people all at once who are pissed of enough that they are willing to join and i remind you not because they morally object what the US does to other peoole but because they threatened war and imposed tarifs hurting them directly a lot very fast. I also highly doubt that this boycott started by canadians shaming each other into boycotting.
Single individuals not using a product and the “organizing” being limited by just telling others they are not living by their principles by using it lacks any real world impact. And i am not even disagreeing that we should consume as ethically as possible i am saying looking at it from a pragmatic point of view that just shaming people is doing nothing objectivly.
For a real world example where moral “boycotting” worked was the Dunnes Store Strike but again it wasn’t people shaming others into not buying south african goods it was a whole organisation (the union) directing their workers to not handle it and the punishment of the workers got others to join and put pressure on the governtment to finally stop importing goods from south africa. Without a strong union support and focus on a direct goal this wouldn’t have worked at all.
We should talk about real life examples that worked and what they had in common and from there organize stragetic boycotts where there is a goid chance of winning not picking things we personally don’t need or want to use and pretending we are morally superior to others who have on principle the same goals we do.
I haven’t seen people losing their shit for it, other than the one suggesting it are being absolutely asshole about it. Telling people of an alternative is significantly better than telling them to simply stop using it. If there’s a local Amazon competitor you bet people gonna jump ship. Same for yt + ytm.
People are the same about YouTube. They hate the treatment of creators, the content theft that is rampant and almost encouraged by YouTube, and the colossal mountain of AI slop content-
But they lose their shit when you so much as suggest they stop using it.
“Stop using Amazon/YouTube, just use <small service without the things you’re looking for> instead” is just empty nagging.
No, it’s how change is made. But you do you.
Change is made through infrastructure.
Consumer choice was always a mirage
Change is made through activism and self-advocacy. Companies won’t produce what people don’t consume.
There isn’t going to be an excuse to continue feeding YouTube. We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Change of what?
This thread is full of excuses
It wasn’t before you showed up.
I don’t lose my shit about it; I just point out the catch 22:
Creators don’t want to leave their established bases, and viewers are gonna go where the creators are.
Get some big creators to move somewhere, anywhere, else and their fans will follow and likely cause a domino effect with other creators. Yelling at the viewers ain’t gonna help a damn thing. There’s basically no content elsewhere. We need to yell at the creators.
Boycotting YouTube outright will not hurt Google nearly as much as it would hurt the creators you are trying to help out.
A lot of the documentary YouTubers created Nebula and run stuff there and on YouTube.
Nobody (statistically speaking) is moving to Nebula.
People are just too damned lazy.
Nebula is small, it still only has a tiny fraction of the YouTube library, and you have to pay to access it up front.
Also, near non-existent marketing budget. People can’t be expected to magically inuit the existence of an alternative platform. At some point, you need to advertise your existence and get your content creators to do the same.
The only creator I’ve ever heard mention Nebula even once was Abigail Thorn. And even she only talked about it during a couple of projects from years back.
Everyone who is anyone in the indie space just goes with Patreon instead.
If people left YouTube, the creators leave YouTube. That’s how it works. This cyclical Stockholm Syndrome only benefits YouTube.
And, it’s not about hurting them. It’s about not support them. When people learn this, meaningful things happen.
I barely use YouTube at all anymore. But I’m also shelling out north of $50/mo on various artists on Patreon.
I don’t really expect other people to follow suit, if they don’t have that kind of disposable income.
Incidentally, I also have a subscription to Amazon Prime and HBO Max. The first, because Amazon is functionally the USPS at this point. The second, because I get it free through my ISP.
I’m not going to cancel either one of them, any more than I’m going to give up my car to protest the fossil fuel industry.
Good on ya for supporting content creators, I’ve done this a few times myself a while back (won’t do it anymore), however- nothing will ever change so long as people keep showing YouTube that they’re okay with things as they are by helping bump up their numbers.
Selective activism and cherry-picking isn’t going to move the needle. Strength of conviction, and an adherence to standards will.
The people “using” YouTube in the economic sense aren’t the viewers, they’re the advertisers.
Neither is stomping your foot and being mad at the anonymous video consumer or ad firm.
Might as well get angry about people watching the Super Bowl or the next big Marvel Movie.
If you want to advocate for an actual alternative thing, go for it. But just arguing in the negative is hollow, especially when you’re arguing with a statistical person rather than an actual audience.
Okay “statistical person”. Have a nice day.
I’m sort of guilty of this. Id love to switch to something else but no where has anything close to the content. I was going to switch to twitch for streaming but that’s fucking Amazon as well.
I mean. I just stopped using it. The same as I did with Facebook and Twitter. Boycotting is boycotting. Either one stands on their principles and backs up their beliefs and standards, or they just like saying they do because it makes them look good.
It’s not supposed to be convenient. It’s supposed to be effective. If you use their platform, you support their practices. Period. That’s how it is.
I can’t say how many times I suggested people stop using that shit in comments on posts where people do nothing but whine about how fucking abysmally shitty YouTube is. And when I do- I get;
“But where else can I go to see muh vidyos?!”
Nowhere.
These people need to be introduced to the hard truth and reality of what boycotting really means. Or they need to get off the pot.
This right here.
I’m doing “elbows up”. No money I have knowingly flows to an American company or individual. Period. And I do my due diligence: I try to find the goods that are American but branded locally.
Is it inconvenient? Fuck yes! But you know what’s more inconvenient? Funding the economy of the nation that is actively attacking mine.
And another fantastic point! Absolutely well said my friend!
And I’ll add-
Not enough people walk the walk at all anymore. If the endorphins are received, and the clout is favorable enough, all it takes are words, because words are all someone needs nowadays to convince others. All that’s required is to just shout into the void that you hate a thing. Then, just Hoover up the validation of your peers, and you’re free to then continue consuming said thing.
When people grow some balls and lean what strength of conviction is, things will change. But right now, Toutube knows they own these clowns and they don’t have the balls to walk away.
I think you need some education on the matter since a “boycott” by individuals is not putting any real pressure on anyone without the numbers and a plan behind it. That is just the truth. That you don’t like it changes nothing.
I highly doubt you are boycotting every single evil corp out there so just like so many you draw the line at your own feet for no reason
Its more important to you to tell everyone how pure YOU are and how stupid they are instead of putting any real effort behind your “boycotting”
I get that its very frustrating watching people throwing money at all these horrible people but the reality is that those horrible people prefere us being mad at each other and you are doing their bidding by playing this game.
We really need to be more pragmatic about this. You can shop at amazon and at the same time support every single regulation against them. We don’t have a youtube or amazon problem we have a structural problem and this doesn’t go away no matter how much you don’t use either of them.
You don’t know shit about me kid. But I know you like to make a lot of assumptions.
Ask Kentucky bourbon manufacturers how the Canadian boycott of their product is going. Or ask California wineries. Or ask pretty much every major tourist site in the USA how pissing off Canadians has worked out for them. Or … well, the list is long. I’ll let you look it up.
It is the concerted action of millions of individuals drawing a line in the sand that kills these fuckers.
Those examples proof my point though? It was a WHOLE COUNTRY organizing a boycott where even the industry is in in it with a specific goal and easily available alternatives with very little discomfort. Its not all american products either.
So you have a big enough number of people all at once who are pissed of enough that they are willing to join and i remind you not because they morally object what the US does to other peoole but because they threatened war and imposed tarifs hurting them directly a lot very fast. I also highly doubt that this boycott started by canadians shaming each other into boycotting.
Single individuals not using a product and the “organizing” being limited by just telling others they are not living by their principles by using it lacks any real world impact. And i am not even disagreeing that we should consume as ethically as possible i am saying looking at it from a pragmatic point of view that just shaming people is doing nothing objectivly.
For a real world example where moral “boycotting” worked was the Dunnes Store Strike but again it wasn’t people shaming others into not buying south african goods it was a whole organisation (the union) directing their workers to not handle it and the punishment of the workers got others to join and put pressure on the governtment to finally stop importing goods from south africa. Without a strong union support and focus on a direct goal this wouldn’t have worked at all.
We should talk about real life examples that worked and what they had in common and from there organize stragetic boycotts where there is a goid chance of winning not picking things we personally don’t need or want to use and pretending we are morally superior to others who have on principle the same goals we do.
I haven’t seen people losing their shit for it, other than the one suggesting it are being absolutely asshole about it. Telling people of an alternative is significantly better than telling them to simply stop using it. If there’s a local Amazon competitor you bet people gonna jump ship. Same for yt + ytm.