I do think each Nation does need some form of online verification.
It’s pretty clear what kind of damage malicious actors can do by posing as a Nations citizens online, especially en masse and orchestrated. This problem is going to continue to get worse with the rise of LLMs.
The solution is better media literacy, better education, yatta yatta but that straight up ain’t happen, and certainly not at the scale needed to circumvent that kind of damage.
What other solutions do we have other than Nation wide online verification systems?
Seriously. We need a functional government and world leaders who can manage id systems and verification with privacy and security in mind, and act reasonably in the public’s interest, just like they do for driver’s licenses, voting, taxes, etc.
You need to trust your government or trust it to not turn evil to be willing to see them take on the task of knowing every single online account you use. And hope whoever comes into power doesn’t find comments you made in a past a threat that it wasn’t before. Like something as benign as the belief politicians should be held accountable could be flagged as treasonous for daring to question the government’s credibility.
Which is the real goal of online verification. Police citizens and eventually kill off or curb sharing of thoughts and ideas for fear of current or future retaliation depending on who comes into power. Automated flagging of potential abnormals based on profiles generated from linked citizen online accounts is the end game.
The idea that this would help stop malicious foreign actors itself seems like yet another false belief that this type of system would be used for the good of citizens as opposed to tracking and move towards Big Brother.
I don’t think it needs to be government based, I don’t see why it can’t be Independent.
I don’t see why the independent entity can’t work through the local DMV systems for verification.
You can cry “Oh, but then you’re trusting a corporation with your data” and like, first off, it can be a non-profit. Also, what are you doing with your ISP? The browser you use? The websites you visit? Every step of the way you’re trusting some corporation with your data - there’s no getting away from that.
When something used to not be required shifts to now being asked of by even nonessential sites to more easily link to an actual ID I’m not as open to just handing it over as you are.
Your line of thinking falls along the lines of people who chose to verify with discord, so nothing is really an issue to you. So trying to convince people like me to fall into your line of thinking is going to take more effort.
Palantir is a corporation and independent entity after all. And non profit isn’t some bullet proof protection.
I don’t think nonessential sites should have some kind of ID verification, but I do think there needs to be some spaces where IDs are verified.
If we can’t trust the government, and we can’t trust independent entities, and there are actual government entities around the world are pouring resources into both misinformation campaigns and LLMs to use against the populace, what options do we have?
Why can’t we trust The Linux Foundation (for example) with tie ins to government verification systems to socialize on closed box social websites where we know the individuals we’re socializing with are actual people of the Nation?
My point is that we as a society, and each Nation for it’s own security and health, needs to form some kind of plan to fight both non-citizens posing as legitimate citizens and the rise of LLMs doing the same. For the U.S. I’d argue it’s National Security; there’s pretty clear interference from external sources influencing the populace that don’t make it obvious. How do we do that in a non-intrusive way?
I think the line of thinking that the internet needs to stay private, anonymous, and open is old and narrow-minded. It’s no longer the 90s. We don’t live in a utopia. And corporations aren’t the only entities online trying to influence readers/users. If we can’t feasibly educate a Nations populace on media literacy then there needs to be other protections in place.
Marketing used to be able to target a specific area of populace that would be most likely to fall for their ads or influence, but now it’s being compiled into LLMs which are much faster. This is a threat that is just going to continue to grow until it’s a complete shitshow. We all already have very little privacy out the gate (assuming average level of tech knowledge or whatever).
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how, but the easiest solution is to have some sites use a trustable verification system. I don’t think we can feasibly trust any government with this kind of solution, so the next best thing is an independent entity that chooses not to work with said government since ya know, they’re independent. Obviously I’m not suggesting trusting Planitir or whatever because they do have strong ties to government entities.
The US government asked for subpoenas of users from reddit. You really trust that ID verification is being pushed to help combat misinformation campaigns? Have you looked at the tech bros that were right next to the US president and all the stock manipulation and financial deals being done? A billionaire created their own private agency with doge with zero consequences.
You seem to be operating on the logic of completely ignoring what is going on in the world to still believe any of these changes are for the good of the people as opposed to control. And to be asking for it when you see who is in charge of the US is really wild.
It seems real strange that you cling to the hope that ID verification requirements is going to lead to changes you wish it would when current events suggest the opposite with the US government themselves spreading AI generated misinformation. And that convinces you to hand over more stuff because you are imagining how you would use it while ignoring how the government likely plans to use it based on current events?
You need to trust your government or trust it to not turn evil
that requires trusting my neighbors not to turn evil, or rather >20% evil (since all it took to elect Krasnov was 20% of the population voting for him) and I have lived in places that were >60% evil, so…
I do think each Nation does need some form of online verification.
It’s pretty clear what kind of damage malicious actors can do by posing as a Nations citizens online, especially en masse and orchestrated. This problem is going to continue to get worse with the rise of LLMs.
The solution is better media literacy, better education, yatta yatta but that straight up ain’t happen, and certainly not at the scale needed to circumvent that kind of damage.
What other solutions do we have other than Nation wide online verification systems?
Seriously. We need a functional government and world leaders who can manage id systems and verification with privacy and security in mind, and act reasonably in the public’s interest, just like they do for driver’s licenses, voting, taxes, etc.
looks outside
Oh no
You need to trust your government or trust it to not turn evil to be willing to see them take on the task of knowing every single online account you use. And hope whoever comes into power doesn’t find comments you made in a past a threat that it wasn’t before. Like something as benign as the belief politicians should be held accountable could be flagged as treasonous for daring to question the government’s credibility.
Which is the real goal of online verification. Police citizens and eventually kill off or curb sharing of thoughts and ideas for fear of current or future retaliation depending on who comes into power. Automated flagging of potential abnormals based on profiles generated from linked citizen online accounts is the end game.
The idea that this would help stop malicious foreign actors itself seems like yet another false belief that this type of system would be used for the good of citizens as opposed to tracking and move towards Big Brother.
I don’t think it needs to be government based, I don’t see why it can’t be Independent.
I don’t see why the independent entity can’t work through the local DMV systems for verification.
You can cry “Oh, but then you’re trusting a corporation with your data” and like, first off, it can be a non-profit. Also, what are you doing with your ISP? The browser you use? The websites you visit? Every step of the way you’re trusting some corporation with your data - there’s no getting away from that.
When something used to not be required shifts to now being asked of by even nonessential sites to more easily link to an actual ID I’m not as open to just handing it over as you are.
Your line of thinking falls along the lines of people who chose to verify with discord, so nothing is really an issue to you. So trying to convince people like me to fall into your line of thinking is going to take more effort.
Palantir is a corporation and independent entity after all. And non profit isn’t some bullet proof protection.
I don’t think nonessential sites should have some kind of ID verification, but I do think there needs to be some spaces where IDs are verified.
If we can’t trust the government, and we can’t trust independent entities, and there are actual government entities around the world are pouring resources into both misinformation campaigns and LLMs to use against the populace, what options do we have?
Why can’t we trust The Linux Foundation (for example) with tie ins to government verification systems to socialize on closed box social websites where we know the individuals we’re socializing with are actual people of the Nation?
My point is that we as a society, and each Nation for it’s own security and health, needs to form some kind of plan to fight both non-citizens posing as legitimate citizens and the rise of LLMs doing the same. For the U.S. I’d argue it’s National Security; there’s pretty clear interference from external sources influencing the populace that don’t make it obvious. How do we do that in a non-intrusive way?
I think the line of thinking that the internet needs to stay private, anonymous, and open is old and narrow-minded. It’s no longer the 90s. We don’t live in a utopia. And corporations aren’t the only entities online trying to influence readers/users. If we can’t feasibly educate a Nations populace on media literacy then there needs to be other protections in place.
Marketing used to be able to target a specific area of populace that would be most likely to fall for their ads or influence, but now it’s being compiled into LLMs which are much faster. This is a threat that is just going to continue to grow until it’s a complete shitshow. We all already have very little privacy out the gate (assuming average level of tech knowledge or whatever).
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how, but the easiest solution is to have some sites use a trustable verification system. I don’t think we can feasibly trust any government with this kind of solution, so the next best thing is an independent entity that chooses not to work with said government since ya know, they’re independent. Obviously I’m not suggesting trusting Planitir or whatever because they do have strong ties to government entities.
The US government asked for subpoenas of users from reddit. You really trust that ID verification is being pushed to help combat misinformation campaigns? Have you looked at the tech bros that were right next to the US president and all the stock manipulation and financial deals being done? A billionaire created their own private agency with doge with zero consequences.
You seem to be operating on the logic of completely ignoring what is going on in the world to still believe any of these changes are for the good of the people as opposed to control. And to be asking for it when you see who is in charge of the US is really wild.
It seems real strange that you cling to the hope that ID verification requirements is going to lead to changes you wish it would when current events suggest the opposite with the US government themselves spreading AI generated misinformation. And that convinces you to hand over more stuff because you are imagining how you would use it while ignoring how the government likely plans to use it based on current events?
This is a bad take. All of it.
Cool, thanks for the notes, alternatives, and ideas. Critical thinking on full display here.
Guess we’ll just have to keep dealing with the weaponization of misinformation in the rise of LLMs all on our own.
I’m sure the undereducated will be just fine and utopia is just around the corner.
I promise you’ll be ok if you think about it for just a little bit longer.
that requires trusting my neighbors not to turn evil, or rather >20% evil (since all it took to elect Krasnov was 20% of the population voting for him) and I have lived in places that were >60% evil, so…