When something used to not be required shifts to now being asked of by even nonessential sites to more easily link to an actual ID I’m not as open to just handing it over as you are.
Your line of thinking falls along the lines of people who chose to verify with discord, so nothing is really an issue to you. So trying to convince people like me to fall into your line of thinking is going to take more effort.
Palantir is a corporation and independent entity after all. And non profit isn’t some bullet proof protection.
I don’t think nonessential sites should have some kind of ID verification, but I do think there needs to be some spaces where IDs are verified.
If we can’t trust the government, and we can’t trust independent entities, and there are actual government entities around the world are pouring resources into both misinformation campaigns and LLMs to use against the populace, what options do we have?
Why can’t we trust The Linux Foundation (for example) with tie ins to government verification systems to socialize on closed box social websites where we know the individuals we’re socializing with are actual people of the Nation?
My point is that we as a society, and each Nation for it’s own security and health, needs to form some kind of plan to fight both non-citizens posing as legitimate citizens and the rise of LLMs doing the same. For the U.S. I’d argue it’s National Security; there’s pretty clear interference from external sources influencing the populace that don’t make it obvious. How do we do that in a non-intrusive way?
I think the line of thinking that the internet needs to stay private, anonymous, and open is old and narrow-minded. It’s no longer the 90s. We don’t live in a utopia. And corporations aren’t the only entities online trying to influence readers/users. If we can’t feasibly educate a Nations populace on media literacy then there needs to be other protections in place.
Marketing used to be able to target a specific area of populace that would be most likely to fall for their ads or influence, but now it’s being compiled into LLMs which are much faster. This is a threat that is just going to continue to grow until it’s a complete shitshow. We all already have very little privacy out the gate (assuming average level of tech knowledge or whatever).
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how, but the easiest solution is to have some sites use a trustable verification system. I don’t think we can feasibly trust any government with this kind of solution, so the next best thing is an independent entity that chooses not to work with said government since ya know, they’re independent. Obviously I’m not suggesting trusting Planitir or whatever because they do have strong ties to government entities.
The US government asked for subpoenas of users from reddit. You really trust that ID verification is being pushed to help combat misinformation campaigns? Have you looked at the tech bros that were right next to the US president and all the stock manipulation and financial deals being done? A billionaire created their own private agency with doge with zero consequences.
You seem to be operating on the logic of completely ignoring what is going on in the world to still believe any of these changes are for the good of the people as opposed to control. And to be asking for it when you see who is in charge of the US is really wild.
It seems real strange that you cling to the hope that ID verification requirements is going to lead to changes you wish it would when current events suggest the opposite with the US government themselves spreading AI generated misinformation. And that convinces you to hand over more stuff because you are imagining how you would use it while ignoring how the government likely plans to use it based on current events?
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how.
That’s the gist of my take.
I think misinformation campaigns by BFAs and botnets are going to be an absolute nightmare for every society worldwide within the next ~10 years. Let’s be clear - it’s absolutely a part of international cyber warfare. This will of course affect the Democratic societies first and hit them the hardest due to politics.
IMO Nations worldwide are already behind the curve and I think the U.S. is a prime example of how misinformation campaigns can be used to quickly sow distrust in leadership, promote division, and start movements. You could argue that U.S. has been headed this way for years, but it’s been a swift change of guard when compared to the past few decades. I think each Nation is already dealing with this kind of cyber warfare but again, are behind the game due to slow politics, slow policies, and lack of policies on tech.
I understand your concerns, but you also don’t have any solutions. Maybe you don’t think that misinformation and botnets through LLMs online are a problem? Maybe you think the majority of society is educated enough to distinguish misinformation or detect LLMs/bots?
You seem to be taking your position based on how you’d like to see ID verification implementand using that as an argument for it. While I see your argument and it doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t reflect the reality of how governments and corporations are using it.
It’s like you just assume governments and corporations will do what you hope and making statements off that. As if you are the supreme ruler or something where they are going to be guided by your vision. As though you just woke up and thought this could be used to combat LLMs and without any care about whether the government or corporations would do with that info collection just assuming that is what they will do because that’s the idea you are fixated on.
That’s the impression I’m getting from what I’ve read. You have failed to convince me that what you wish will happen will be to the benefit you hope it will be.
Again, you offer no solutions to our problems. No ideas. Your hopelessness is boring and unoriginal.
Yes, I absolutely do believe that guarding against targeted misinformation is more important than guarding against government intrusion since the government can already strongarm ISPs, OS manufacturers, and web admins for information. If cyber warfare is happening through misinformation to erode Democracy, then I’m rooting for my Government over international Government who are also pining for the same control. There is not going to be a perfect solution to this issue.
It really sounds like, with your lack of ideas or real meaningful recognition of the problem here, that you’ve already given up and given in. That there’s no clawing our way back from our current position. Without ideas or solutions we’re destined to just accept what’s happening and it’s every person for themselves. No safety net against this kind of problem.
Finally, I’m not trying to convince you of shit, I’m trying to have a normal conversation of ideas in a public space, but you have no ideas. Bring something to the table besides pessimism or fuck off, yeah?
When something used to not be required shifts to now being asked of by even nonessential sites to more easily link to an actual ID I’m not as open to just handing it over as you are.
Your line of thinking falls along the lines of people who chose to verify with discord, so nothing is really an issue to you. So trying to convince people like me to fall into your line of thinking is going to take more effort.
Palantir is a corporation and independent entity after all. And non profit isn’t some bullet proof protection.
I don’t think nonessential sites should have some kind of ID verification, but I do think there needs to be some spaces where IDs are verified.
If we can’t trust the government, and we can’t trust independent entities, and there are actual government entities around the world are pouring resources into both misinformation campaigns and LLMs to use against the populace, what options do we have?
Why can’t we trust The Linux Foundation (for example) with tie ins to government verification systems to socialize on closed box social websites where we know the individuals we’re socializing with are actual people of the Nation?
My point is that we as a society, and each Nation for it’s own security and health, needs to form some kind of plan to fight both non-citizens posing as legitimate citizens and the rise of LLMs doing the same. For the U.S. I’d argue it’s National Security; there’s pretty clear interference from external sources influencing the populace that don’t make it obvious. How do we do that in a non-intrusive way?
I think the line of thinking that the internet needs to stay private, anonymous, and open is old and narrow-minded. It’s no longer the 90s. We don’t live in a utopia. And corporations aren’t the only entities online trying to influence readers/users. If we can’t feasibly educate a Nations populace on media literacy then there needs to be other protections in place.
Marketing used to be able to target a specific area of populace that would be most likely to fall for their ads or influence, but now it’s being compiled into LLMs which are much faster. This is a threat that is just going to continue to grow until it’s a complete shitshow. We all already have very little privacy out the gate (assuming average level of tech knowledge or whatever).
I’m hoping in the next ~10 years this problem gets solved. I don’t know how, I don’t care how, but the easiest solution is to have some sites use a trustable verification system. I don’t think we can feasibly trust any government with this kind of solution, so the next best thing is an independent entity that chooses not to work with said government since ya know, they’re independent. Obviously I’m not suggesting trusting Planitir or whatever because they do have strong ties to government entities.
The US government asked for subpoenas of users from reddit. You really trust that ID verification is being pushed to help combat misinformation campaigns? Have you looked at the tech bros that were right next to the US president and all the stock manipulation and financial deals being done? A billionaire created their own private agency with doge with zero consequences.
You seem to be operating on the logic of completely ignoring what is going on in the world to still believe any of these changes are for the good of the people as opposed to control. And to be asking for it when you see who is in charge of the US is really wild.
It seems real strange that you cling to the hope that ID verification requirements is going to lead to changes you wish it would when current events suggest the opposite with the US government themselves spreading AI generated misinformation. And that convinces you to hand over more stuff because you are imagining how you would use it while ignoring how the government likely plans to use it based on current events?
That’s the gist of my take.
I think misinformation campaigns by BFAs and botnets are going to be an absolute nightmare for every society worldwide within the next ~10 years. Let’s be clear - it’s absolutely a part of international cyber warfare. This will of course affect the Democratic societies first and hit them the hardest due to politics.
IMO Nations worldwide are already behind the curve and I think the U.S. is a prime example of how misinformation campaigns can be used to quickly sow distrust in leadership, promote division, and start movements. You could argue that U.S. has been headed this way for years, but it’s been a swift change of guard when compared to the past few decades. I think each Nation is already dealing with this kind of cyber warfare but again, are behind the game due to slow politics, slow policies, and lack of policies on tech.
I understand your concerns, but you also don’t have any solutions. Maybe you don’t think that misinformation and botnets through LLMs online are a problem? Maybe you think the majority of society is educated enough to distinguish misinformation or detect LLMs/bots?
You seem to be taking your position based on how you’d like to see ID verification implementand using that as an argument for it. While I see your argument and it doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t reflect the reality of how governments and corporations are using it.
It’s like you just assume governments and corporations will do what you hope and making statements off that. As if you are the supreme ruler or something where they are going to be guided by your vision. As though you just woke up and thought this could be used to combat LLMs and without any care about whether the government or corporations would do with that info collection just assuming that is what they will do because that’s the idea you are fixated on.
That’s the impression I’m getting from what I’ve read. You have failed to convince me that what you wish will happen will be to the benefit you hope it will be.
Again, you offer no solutions to our problems. No ideas. Your hopelessness is boring and unoriginal.
Yes, I absolutely do believe that guarding against targeted misinformation is more important than guarding against government intrusion since the government can already strongarm ISPs, OS manufacturers, and web admins for information. If cyber warfare is happening through misinformation to erode Democracy, then I’m rooting for my Government over international Government who are also pining for the same control. There is not going to be a perfect solution to this issue.
It really sounds like, with your lack of ideas or real meaningful recognition of the problem here, that you’ve already given up and given in. That there’s no clawing our way back from our current position. Without ideas or solutions we’re destined to just accept what’s happening and it’s every person for themselves. No safety net against this kind of problem.
Finally, I’m not trying to convince you of shit, I’m trying to have a normal conversation of ideas in a public space, but you have no ideas. Bring something to the table besides pessimism or fuck off, yeah?