I think the connection is in the “things will get worse,” and “I’ll die before they get better;” which I am confident is fair to read as despair or dread. If it reads as condescending to express empathy with your outlook, I don’t know if that says much about what I’ve actually said. Even in this comment, you assumed that collapse is inevitable (or even the worse outcome, which is interesting) and that this is directly linked to your mortality. Though you certainly seem like you’re threatened by the state, the words you’ve said are conducive to an outlook of hopelessness not because of inevitability, but because of apathy.
I can tell this is coming from a more liberal perspective, which often results in the construction that a less desirable world is often perceived as an undesirable or even intolerable world. You’d be far from the first “left-leaning” liberal to come to Lemmy and express this kind of perspective, because most people in the US are purposefully neglected the political literacy or historical memory to imagine a system that does not look like this one that isn’t “regressive,” I.e. a “collapse.”
There are people in the US right now who are living (and resisting) in an apocalyptic collapse of their society, and I’m asking you to consider whether what you’ve experienced truly warrants this kind of construction of the future that views their struggle as worthless or toxic (whether or not you meant to, that’s what this narrative does).
You admitted several times you are projecting despair onto me, I have stated I am not in nor do I endorse despair.
There are people in the US right now who are living (and resisting) in an apocalyptic collapse of their society
What about my words denies their agency?
Even in this comment, you assumed that collapse is inevitable (or even the worse outcome, which is interesting)
What are you on about?
^ this is nearly indisputable evidence of collapse, if you want to deny the future with a religious sort of faith because you need to for your own health fine but don’t drag me through the mud while you do it.
One last thing, you are a fool for thinking this collapse is good, collapse is always a violent, indiscriminate and chaotic process even when what is collapsing is “bad” or parts of a system have already collapsed.
I hate neoliberalism with a passion, but that doesn’t mean I think it collapsing like this is good.
“Projection” is doing a lot of legwork after I used your own words. But I can see what kind of interaction this, and what kind of person you are from it.
Your words don’t need to “deny their agency,” to illustrate why it is harmful, or at the very least, unhelpful. You want to wait until it denies their agency to change? I don’t know what optimism I can find in that outlook.
As far as climate change goes, again, I’d ask you to consider whether people in “collapsed” ecologies resist with the outlook that you’ve expressed (explicitly). Unless, you’d want to “deny their agency,” by now refusing what colonialism even does, who it has affected, and what they do about it. To call that kind of optimism “religious” (let alone something “corrupting” like "dragging you through the mud), echoes a markedly settler-colonial form of objectivity that, I’ll remind you, emerged from the very system that accepts this harm as inevitable.
And you think you’re being realistic, even though you’d discard the reality of human responses to this destruction. Please, don’t feel the need to type up some vindicating response to this, just sit with it privately and see if there’s anything better for you there.
You are strawmanning me by suggesting that because I think collapse is nearly inevitable or already underway at the moment that this must mean I think humanity cannot live in harmony with the earth and that the unsustainability of capitalism, neoliberalism or any other way of organizing people is inherent to humanity itself.
I never said that.
What I said is, the earth system is in collapse (from a human and biodiversity standpoint, and from a standpoint that ecocide and genocide are bad), indisputably, no matter what we do now.
That does not mean I endorse giving up or that I think people who have already received the brunt of collapse don’t have agency.
I think the connection is in the “things will get worse,” and “I’ll die before they get better;” which I am confident is fair to read as despair or dread. If it reads as condescending to express empathy with your outlook, I don’t know if that says much about what I’ve actually said. Even in this comment, you assumed that collapse is inevitable (or even the worse outcome, which is interesting) and that this is directly linked to your mortality. Though you certainly seem like you’re threatened by the state, the words you’ve said are conducive to an outlook of hopelessness not because of inevitability, but because of apathy.
I can tell this is coming from a more liberal perspective, which often results in the construction that a less desirable world is often perceived as an undesirable or even intolerable world. You’d be far from the first “left-leaning” liberal to come to Lemmy and express this kind of perspective, because most people in the US are purposefully neglected the political literacy or historical memory to imagine a system that does not look like this one that isn’t “regressive,” I.e. a “collapse.”
There are people in the US right now who are living (and resisting) in an apocalyptic collapse of their society, and I’m asking you to consider whether what you’ve experienced truly warrants this kind of construction of the future that views their struggle as worthless or toxic (whether or not you meant to, that’s what this narrative does).
You admitted several times you are projecting despair onto me, I have stated I am not in nor do I endorse despair.
What about my words denies their agency?
What are you on about?
^ this is nearly indisputable evidence of collapse, if you want to deny the future with a religious sort of faith because you need to for your own health fine but don’t drag me through the mud while you do it.
One last thing, you are a fool for thinking this collapse is good, collapse is always a violent, indiscriminate and chaotic process even when what is collapsing is “bad” or parts of a system have already collapsed.
I hate neoliberalism with a passion, but that doesn’t mean I think it collapsing like this is good.
“Projection” is doing a lot of legwork after I used your own words. But I can see what kind of interaction this, and what kind of person you are from it.
Your words don’t need to “deny their agency,” to illustrate why it is harmful, or at the very least, unhelpful. You want to wait until it denies their agency to change? I don’t know what optimism I can find in that outlook.
As far as climate change goes, again, I’d ask you to consider whether people in “collapsed” ecologies resist with the outlook that you’ve expressed (explicitly). Unless, you’d want to “deny their agency,” by now refusing what colonialism even does, who it has affected, and what they do about it. To call that kind of optimism “religious” (let alone something “corrupting” like "dragging you through the mud), echoes a markedly settler-colonial form of objectivity that, I’ll remind you, emerged from the very system that accepts this harm as inevitable.
And you think you’re being realistic, even though you’d discard the reality of human responses to this destruction. Please, don’t feel the need to type up some vindicating response to this, just sit with it privately and see if there’s anything better for you there.
You are strawmanning me by suggesting that because I think collapse is nearly inevitable or already underway at the moment that this must mean I think humanity cannot live in harmony with the earth and that the unsustainability of capitalism, neoliberalism or any other way of organizing people is inherent to humanity itself.
I never said that.
What I said is, the earth system is in collapse (from a human and biodiversity standpoint, and from a standpoint that ecocide and genocide are bad), indisputably, no matter what we do now.
That does not mean I endorse giving up or that I think people who have already received the brunt of collapse don’t have agency.
I am done, this conversation is pointless.