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Goddamn you lot like your false dichotomies.
Just because Israel has ties to the European far right, doesn’t mean that Russia doesnt.
There’s ample proof that Russia has funded and supported numerous far right personalities, exactly the same ones mentioned by Israel.
It’s not mutually exclusive for both Israel and Russia to have ties to them - both countries are, after all, far right authoritarian states barely pretending to be democracies, which is exactly what people like LePen and Farage are trying to install in their countries. It is of course why Trump loves them so much, as that is exactly where he is at.
I assume, but I haven’t seen proof that there are strong ties between Russia & Israel - I’ve seen a lot of persuasive evidence that falls short of proof (relationships between Mossad and what used to be KGB go back to well before the fall of the USSR).
Thank you, i do not have much more to add. All those far-right assholes regardless if from Israel, Russia, US and probably China are trying to destabilize Europe because they do not want them to be a global player, and they are doing a pretty good job.
Yeah, there’s absolutely no doubt China is quietly dabbling, and as the other poster loudly notes, the Yanks are elbow deep in causing trouble here too
Does anyone have any tangible evidence or news articles about China? If they are, they are covering their tracks really good.
I don’t warrant the accuracy of this info, but a quick search shows the following
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_interference_in_the_2024_United_States_elections
https://www.cfr.org/articles/election-2024-chinas-efforts-interfere-us-presidential-election
thanks will have a look at these
ps: I generally trust wikipedia because they don’t go out of their way to please any particular super power. People who call it western propaganda clearly haven’t read Wikipedia articles about Gaza or US
It is identical to saying “Elon Musk appeared in reform UK and AfD rallies so Israel is innocent”. Anyone who uses such a weak argument to absolve a goverment of their crimes is probably already a devotee to one side and can not be trusted to discuss this topic.
It is already well established that many right wing influencers and billionaires have ties to Russia. What is not so clear is whether if it is to Russian oligarchs or the government directly. I would assume even if the governent, Putin is better at covering his tracks than the idiot OP mentioned or Elon Musk who casts his face on giant screens in extreme right wing rallies (because he needs attention and validation). So he will have atleast a couple of layers of proxies between him and them.
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There’s undoubtedly support coming from Russia as well, since it’s also an oligarchy, but can you Americans please stop trying to pin your own obviously fascist state on anyone other than your own goddamn billionaires?
LOL. I’m in the UK mate. Don’t call me a Yank thanks.
I’m no fan of them either, and yes, US billionaires are also slinging money at the local fash, but that’s a relatively recent phenomenon - it started with the Russians, and the rest jumped on from there as far as I can tell, if you have some facts feel free to table them though.
Please take note that you’ve been ruled by organized crime for decades.
Maaaate, England has been ruled by barely organised crime for a millenium.
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What difference does it make where you’re from?
Because literally your entire argument bar one point was predicated on the (incorrect) assumption that I was a hypocritical Yank who was blind to the “log in his own eye”. Your entire position unravels when that thread is pulled
can you Americans please stop trying to pin your own obviously fascist state on anyone other than your own goddamn billionaires?
Not a Yank, and not a logical statement anyway I didnt mention the Americans and their fall into fascism at all, so I can’t logically be accused of trying to pin that on someone else when it didnt get discussed
Trump has much more in common with Putin than with an ordinary U.S. citizen.
True but irrelevant to the discussion of Israel and Russian backing of European fascists
Israel isn’t the driving force here either
I’m not sure the original post claimed that, but I certainly never said that
Its power comes from its billionaire backers—and the U.S. is, without a doubt, the biggest of them all.
Now that’s partly true, Israel wouldn’t exist without the trillions that the US has given them however the vast majority came from the US taxpayers though, not the billionaires - they don’t like parting with money as a rule.
Israel didn’t force the war against Iran on the U.S
Utterly irrelevant to the discussion of who is cosied up with the fash in Europe, it doesn’t really matter whether it was the Bibinazi or the Trumpynazi who decided they wanted to bomb Iran
And I kept the best till last
The biggest supporter of far-right parties in Europe is Elon Musk.
Not even a little bit close. There’s massive amounts of documentation on this - Farage and LePen with their grubby little paws out and getting caught taking Russian money both directly and then indirectly via crypto, not to mention the Hungarian dictator soaking up grants from the EU that were supposed to build infrastructure and redirecting it into funding the other far right wingers. Even as far as US billionaires go Muskrat is miles behind Thiel and Ellison (for example, although there’s plenty of others). Elmo is just as subtle as brick through a window and gets the attention, but if you follow the money, he’s a tight arse.
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we’re at least in basic agreement
I agree with you on that: US Russia and China, (and Israel), are authoritarian countries ruled by autocracies/oligarchies, or as as I prefer kakistocracy (shit lords).
The billionaires and the 1% most certainly don’t have our best interests at stake and are actively working to reduce the 99% to slaves or at the least serfs.
I have zero positivity about the US but you have to understand the process that got us here in order to best fight it. If you ignore Russia and China’s political meddling and only rail against the Yanks you will get blindsided. Israel are lapdogs of US with a bad attitude and more influence than they deserve, don’t ignore them or they’ll bite us like a rabid Jack Russell terrier.
Many many surveys show that the majority of Europeans don’t see the US as an ally any more, the only exceptions are the ones caught in the far right bubble.
The real danger is our politicians are easily influenced by bribes both direct and indirect (jobs after their political career finishes), and that’s our big exposure - you only have to look at the repeated attempts to bring in the Chat Control legislation so the US tech bros can surveil us - they kept re-attempting it until the snuck it through when EU MPs had gone on recess a day early.
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when people say Russia they don’t mean the whole of Russia as a country that much should be obvious. All the blame obviously goes to oligarchs and likely the goverment of Russia who uses them as a proxy.
A world where Israel never existed (and Zionism never existed) is a world that probably is vastly freer and less authoritarian than the one we live in now… It is incredible to think just what these people have done to sabotage everything over the course of the 78 years they have existed…
crazy how close the anti-semitic conspiracy theorists were to the truth
So… does that mean that the whole “Epstein was a part of a global Mossad blackmail operation” thing now carries some weight?
“Deep conservative right”…so…Nazis. You’re all a bunch of kapos.
“Deep conservative right”…so…Nazis
Nah, fascists. All Nazis are fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis.
For example, the Nazis were big into public infrastructure projects, pretending to be socialist, and restrictive gun laws.
At least one of those are anathema to every modern fascist movement, and to the richest and most powerful one, all three are.
In the Netherlands the PVV is funded by israel and the FvD by russia. Both are completely incompetent but keep getting votes, cause “immigrants bad”. Anyway both russia and israel can fuck right off.
It’s the same way in the US, except that the Russia-backed right-wing party and the Israel-backed right-wing party are the only two parties we have.
Please send help.
The trick is having 17 parties so nobody has a majority and nobody can get shit done because there always needs to be compromising.
To be fair, “nobody can get shit done because there always needs to be compromising” is also known as “when Democrats are temporarily in power” in the US 🤷🏻
IMO, it is.
LOL. Well said. I wish there was something we could do. I’m afraid it seems to be 1776 again for you guys. Good luck.
Do you have soms sources for the fvd funding? I always try to convince my local social sphere with facts and proven arguments. It’s usually enough and a shocking argument when I tell my ‘PVV isn’t so bad’ acquaintances that Wilders lived in Israel for quite soms years, which mostly shocks them as they didn’t know this…
https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6189264/dit-zijn-de-pro-poetin-adviseurs-van-thierry-baudet.html
They can’t prove it, cause money laundering and all that. But it is pretty obvious they are connected to russia. Every single time there’s a vote related to russia, they pick the side of russia.
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They’ve conspired to be one of the main driving forces behind the alliance, though, going WAY beyond just supporting movements that were already present and successful.
To pretend that the West’s favorite fascist apartheid state isn’t at least partway responsible for the structure and success of the parties themselves as well as the alliance between them is inattentive at best, willfully blind at worst.
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That’s an analysis based on vibes and what "sounds like it should be the case
Nope. That’s based on what the ACTUAL conspirators are admitting to conspiring to do.
the claim that the rise in fascist parties is not primarily and overwhelmingly so due to endogenous fascist, xenophobic and Islamophobic tendencies in European countries themselves
It’s not realistically possible to accurately quantify the proportions like that (unless “based on vibes”), but regardless, you seem extremely adamant about dismissing contextually crucial perversions of self rule by foreign enemies in order to prevent that the domestic ones are the sole significant culprits and could just as easily go it alone.
That’s not only misguided, it’s also actively harmful to any efforts to know the problem so that we have a better chance of dealing with it.
somehow the result of external propping up by some kind of Israeli conspiracy psyop
Now you’re just trying to build a strawman out of accurate observations 🙄
does not stand to the simple Occam’s Razor test
Sure. If you ignore where all the funding, organizing, and strategies for cooperation (between otherwise nationalist fascists from different countries, no less), that would be a reasonable application of the Razor.
Given ample evidence to the contrary, though, it would need complicated reasoning to refute and as such fails the test of the good Mr William of Ockham, Billy to his friends.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So give such evidence, buddy.
So… You don’t consider world leaders publicly bragging about funding and organizing a fascist takeover attempt of several countries’ governments “extraordinary”?
If so, there’s probably little if anything else that would persuade you.
antisemitic tropes
Anti-zionism ≠ antisemitism. Don’t be like the spokespeople of a fascist apartheid regime.
I’m not saying “the Jews are doing it” based on bigotry. I’m saying “the fascist apartheid regime is doing a lot of it” based on an overwhelming preponderance of evidence.
The evidence already in front of our eyes is enough
Clearly not, in your case.
No reason to dumb down our analysis with some half baked rehashing of the protocols of the elders of Zion.
Agreed. Which is why I wasn’t doing anything even remotely resembling that.
Starting to wonder if the elders of Zion crap is a talking point made up by Zionists to make the idea of being anti-Zionist seem equivalent to antisemitic conspiracy theories. Zionists are more than happy promoting antisemitic narratives to promote their goals so it wouldn’t surprise me.
I was about to dismiss the notion based on the Protocols hoax predating zionism, but having looked it up, the hoax is from 1903 and the origins of zionism are in the late 1800s. Hmm 🤔
Speculation aside, though, there’s no doubt that Hasbarists LOVE taking even the slightest similarity to actual antisemitic tropes in anti-zionist messaging and conflating the hell out of that shit to further their gaslighting.
Of course, it doesn’t help that a lot of the most disgusting antisemitic tropes are about nefarious rich Jews conspiring to exert undue influence and a lot of the activities of the likes of AIPAC and ADL are doing almost 1:1 real life versions of those things.
Helps to remember that there’s a lot more Christian zionists than Jewish ones in total and in the US in particular, though.
It feels really convenient for them. Maybe that’s a conspiracy theory in and of itself.
I would argue that even for antisemitic conspiracy theories that form organically, that they would work to keep them alive so they can point to them to deflect criticism of Zionism and claim it’s all antisemitism.
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I don’t know what you think you’re going to achieve here, but dismissing anti-Zionism as antisemitic conspiriacies isn’t going to get you anything good here, and we will not hesitate to ban people who parrot pro-Zionist rhetoric. Accusations of antisemitism here aren’t going to shut people down, they will just get you banned.
Israel provides funding and support to many leaders, these leaders have openly admitted this. Denying that only serves to benefit them. It is a form of Zionist apologia.
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Sayonara you worthless Zionist apologist.
Why does Europe send billions to this terrorist state?
white supremacy, neocolonialism, modern western guilt complex, how many reasons you need?
My theory is: decades gathering kompromat on top and rising politicians in Europe through Epstein’s operation as well as from hacking smartphones.
We live in an era with high levels of rot in Politics in Europe, even in the supposedly cleaner countries, so it makes sense that there’s a lot of politicians in Europe caught doing things which are criminal or at least shameful by the massive remote surveillance network made possible by things like smartphones (notice how all companies selling smartphone surveillance services are in Israel) and automation or in one of the honeypot operations run with the cooperation of the Mossad, such as Epstein’s.
The very, very special combination of sociopathy, feelings of de facto immunity as Justice is often compromised by Political power and complete total ignorance of IT Security in the digital era, would make modern European politicians pretty susceptible to being caught by such decades-long operations trying to do just that.
Yayyyy!!! Slovenia mentioned 🥳🥳🥳🥳🎉🎉🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮
lmao
(sorry for my poor english)
Sori for maj pur ingliš.
Janša will save us 😭
Gotta love stevanović as well.
Judging by the way a lot of the mainstream party politicians in Europe are doing their outmost to protect and even support Israel even in the face of the UN saying they’re commiting a Genocide and activelly targetting children, and doing so against the wishes of the local public opinion, I would say that Israel owns a lot more of European politics and politicians than just the far right parties.
Many European mainstream parties are somewhat against the genocide. Spain and France are probably the most important ones of the lot. Not anti Israel as such, but willing to sanction them. The biggest reason not more is being done is Germany, which is in the weird position of paying reparations for a genocide, which is then used to commit a genocide.
Proudly allied with the Front National (or whatever they call themselves these days to sound more palatable), which was co-created by a literal SS. That should tell you all you need to know about their true agenda.
Proudly allied with the Front National (or whatever they call themselves these days to sound more palatable)
RN - “Rassemblement National” -> National Rally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rally
Formerly known as FN - “Front National” before that as you say, and before that “Ordre Nouveau” (New Order) and before that just a friendly bunch of SS members and collaborators along with a lovely group of terrorists know as the OAS (Secret Army).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordre_Nouveau_(1960s)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_armée_secrète
Charming psychopaths.
F haine as we used to called them
Lol, yeah the hate front sounds about right
Israel has created alliances with European far right parties. That does not mean Israel created those parties. It just means both hate Muslims and hence work together.
Russia and Israel also have a weird relationship. They sometimes work very closely together. Like Russia is Israels biggest fuel supplier. Israel also has no problem with buying grain Russia stole from Ukraine. Also many Russian oligarchs have Israeli passports. Those contacts have grown stronger since Trump became president.
Before somebody cries about Iran. For Russia the war is absolutely perfect. It means less US aid to Ukraine and higher oil prices. Obviously Israel loves the war as well.
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Israel could hold its own against enemies on all its borders
All of which have become enemies due to the actions of Israel and its Western backers.
Mustn’t forget that crucial detail, lest we accidentally help spread their Hasbara gaslighting talking points.
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wasn’t Israel—it was the billionaires.
6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Israel has more billionaires per capita than some of the richest countries in the world
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I love how everyone in this comment section is like “Hold up now let’s not get carried away. Yes, the apartheid ethno-supremacists state who’s committing genocide and countless more crimes might have some connection with the
far rightfascists eu parties (they are admitting it) but in reality, behind israel, there is russia, israel is actually russian propaganda.”Bibi and Putin are literally best friends, no one is behind anyone, they’re side by side holding hands
Nono didn’t you read comments on this platform? It’s only putin, it’s always only Russia. If you think it’s something else, you are russian propaganda obviously. Stop thinking critically Jesus ✋
