Societal concepts of women certainly come from biology originally, there would be no concept of sex if there was no Y chromosome, but honestly to me: a woman is whoever identifies as woman. Just like sexuality, it’s just an innate part of who you are. Most women are female and birth, but I don’t give slightest fuck that there are women who aren’t female at birth. Just like I don’t give a fuck that there are men who are attracted to other men.
Like who cares. If your birth certificate says your name is Steve, but you go by Paul, who the fuck am I to protest that it’s not your name given to you by your parents?
The question doesn’t stump me, I just think it’s a colossal waste of time.
You can identify however you bloody like, why should I care? As long as you’re understanding if I mix up your pronouns, then it affects me literally not at all
The full answer, which is boring as hell, doesn’t prove your position - and in my opinion - is a waste of time (and I kind already stated above in other words):
Original societal concepts of what a “woman” is come from biology sex. No doubt about that. What what many consider gender now isn’t the same as that.
Same as marriage isn’t some natural phenomena. Society isn’t really “natural” either.
If someone FEELS like they are a woman, then they are to me, what more do we really NEED to define it as? What purpose can it possibly serve?
The concept of a “woman” is still vaguely based on historical ideas of what a woman is - but what a woman is isn’t some fixed concept. Women used to be seen like second class citizens without the right to vote, who should stay at home, and obey their husbands. That was what some cultures defined as being a woman.
No one’s forcing you to be attracted to a woman who was male at birth. Literally how does this affect you or anyone else?
Christ, identity politics is such a waste of time. Why do you give a shit what equipment people have in their pants? It’s weird.
Feels like a what? Define “woman” without using the word woman.
A woman is an adult human female. You can’t “feel” like a woman, you just are or are not one.
Literally how does this affect you or anyone else?
I have daughters. I have a wife. I don’t want them losing opportunities that are meant for women to males. I don’t want them sharing changing rooms or bathrooms, made for women, with males. They don’t want to because it makes them uncomfortable in a place where they should be safe and comfortable. Essentially all sexual assaults are committed by males on females. If there are no males in a female place, the females are safer than if there are.
Essentially all sexual assaults are committed by males on females.
This is the biggest brain-dead take out of all of them. Go ahead, please do find any study that shows trans women commit assaults at anywhere near the rates of cis men. Because if this is the argument you’re trying to make, you had better actually have some evidence for it.
Feels like a what? Define “woman” without using the word woman.
You keep saying this like it’s some gotcha, but clearly you haven’t read my comments. I already told you (twice) definitions do stem originally from biological sex, I’ve already conceded this from the very beginning, but that I still don’t think this matters or is a terribly convincing reason to say “nope you’re not a woman because historically our ideas of what a woman is stem entirely from DNA and your sex organs”. Agree to disagree on this I guess. Again it’s weird how you want to make sure people have vaginas.
This triggers you massively, it seems.
I have daughters. I have a wife. I don’t want them losing opportunities that are meant for women to males. I don’t want them sharing changing rooms or bathrooms, made for women, with males. They don’t want to because it makes them uncomfortable in a place where they should be safe and comfortable. Essentially all sexual assaults are committed by males on females. If there are no males in a female place, the females are safer than if there are.
As above, you’re just asserting something about safety, but I also wanted to add that 1. Changing rooms and bathrooms really should be separate stalls. It’s really weird (to me) that you’re expected to change in a room with other people in it. 2. What opportunities? Vaguely sport is the only one that could make sense to me - but we can create new categories there not based on gender too (there are weight classes in certain sports, wouldn’t be crazy to do something similar there too bases on biology, and not gender)…
Basically. Get a grip mate. This is such a tiny issue.
Identify politics is such a waste of time.
I’d much rather be talking about fighting the ruling class, they’re actually impacting our lives…
This is the biggest brain-dead take out of all of them. Go ahead, please do find any study that shows trans women commit assaults at anywhere near the rates of cis men. Because if this is the argument you’re trying to make, you had better actually have some evidence for it.
Way to miss the point. Trans women are males, therefor are significantly more likely to sexually assault a woman than a female is. Letting trans women have unfettered access to womens safe spaces is like letting a wolf into the hen house.
I already told you (twice) definitions do stem originally from biological sex, I’ve already conceded this from the very beginning, but that I still don’t think this matters or is a terribly convincing reason to say “nope you’re not a woman because historically our ideas of what a woman is stem entirely from DNA and your sex organs”.
You still can’t define what a woman is though. I’m asking you to give me your definition of “woman” without using the word woman. If you can’t it means that woman can’t be defined, and that means it essentially doesn’t exist. It erases women. It’s deeply misogynistic.
This triggers you massively, it seems.
lol good one. Right back at you buddy.
Changing rooms and bathrooms really should be separate stalls.
They are? Women don’t all just stand around peeing on the floor lol. Being separate stalls doesn’t change the fact that if you let men in to the women’s safe space, women are no longer safe. Women have to go in and out of the stalls still.
What opportunities? Vaguely sport is the only one that could make sense to me - but we can create new categories there not based on gender too (there are weight classes in certain sports, wouldn’t be crazy to do something similar there too bases on biology, and not gender)…
Women’s sport was not created because of gender, it was created because of sex. Males and females are biologically different, and women would win literally nothing if they had to compete against men - hence, Women’s sport. Go find a women’s sport world record that is even comparable to the corresponding men’s one. Good luck.
It’s not just sports either, it’s everything from scholarships to jobs to awards, and many more. Basically everything that was separated by Sex. They were done so because men and women are fundamentally different.
Basically. Get a grip mate. This is such a tiny issue.
It’s not a tiny issue for women though. If it’s such a tiny issue, why can’t trans women just use the men’s spaces? Trans women are in less danger in a men’s room than women are with a trans woman in a women’s room, factually and statistically.
I’d much rather be talking about fighting the ruling class, they’re actually impacting our lives…
It’s possible to talk about more than 1 issue at a time.
What is a woman? Can you answer that without using circular definitions?
Edit: once again, the simple question has everyone stumped.
Hormones are a reasonable line to draw it on, as it is testosterone that makes men strong and which makes some men dangerous
Hormones? No lol. That’s not a reasonable line at all. That’s one of the least reasonable lines to draw it on.
Societal concepts of women certainly come from biology originally, there would be no concept of sex if there was no Y chromosome, but honestly to me: a woman is whoever identifies as woman. Just like sexuality, it’s just an innate part of who you are. Most women are female and birth, but I don’t give slightest fuck that there are women who aren’t female at birth. Just like I don’t give a fuck that there are men who are attracted to other men.
Like who cares. If your birth certificate says your name is Steve, but you go by Paul, who the fuck am I to protest that it’s not your name given to you by your parents?
The question doesn’t stump me, I just think it’s a colossal waste of time.
You can identify however you bloody like, why should I care? As long as you’re understanding if I mix up your pronouns, then it affects me literally not at all
I said without circular definitions. You can’t define the word “woman” using the word “woman”.
The full answer, which is boring as hell, doesn’t prove your position - and in my opinion - is a waste of time (and I kind already stated above in other words):
Original societal concepts of what a “woman” is come from biology sex. No doubt about that. What what many consider gender now isn’t the same as that.
Same as marriage isn’t some natural phenomena. Society isn’t really “natural” either.
If someone FEELS like they are a woman, then they are to me, what more do we really NEED to define it as? What purpose can it possibly serve?
The concept of a “woman” is still vaguely based on historical ideas of what a woman is - but what a woman is isn’t some fixed concept. Women used to be seen like second class citizens without the right to vote, who should stay at home, and obey their husbands. That was what some cultures defined as being a woman.
No one’s forcing you to be attracted to a woman who was male at birth. Literally how does this affect you or anyone else?
Christ, identity politics is such a waste of time. Why do you give a shit what equipment people have in their pants? It’s weird.
Feels like a what? Define “woman” without using the word woman.
A woman is an adult human female. You can’t “feel” like a woman, you just are or are not one.
I have daughters. I have a wife. I don’t want them losing opportunities that are meant for women to males. I don’t want them sharing changing rooms or bathrooms, made for women, with males. They don’t want to because it makes them uncomfortable in a place where they should be safe and comfortable. Essentially all sexual assaults are committed by males on females. If there are no males in a female place, the females are safer than if there are.
This is the biggest brain-dead take out of all of them. Go ahead, please do find any study that shows trans women commit assaults at anywhere near the rates of cis men. Because if this is the argument you’re trying to make, you had better actually have some evidence for it.
You keep saying this like it’s some gotcha, but clearly you haven’t read my comments. I already told you (twice) definitions do stem originally from biological sex, I’ve already conceded this from the very beginning, but that I still don’t think this matters or is a terribly convincing reason to say “nope you’re not a woman because historically our ideas of what a woman is stem entirely from DNA and your sex organs”. Agree to disagree on this I guess. Again it’s weird how you want to make sure people have vaginas.
This triggers you massively, it seems.
As above, you’re just asserting something about safety, but I also wanted to add that 1. Changing rooms and bathrooms really should be separate stalls. It’s really weird (to me) that you’re expected to change in a room with other people in it. 2. What opportunities? Vaguely sport is the only one that could make sense to me - but we can create new categories there not based on gender too (there are weight classes in certain sports, wouldn’t be crazy to do something similar there too bases on biology, and not gender)…
Basically. Get a grip mate. This is such a tiny issue.
Identify politics is such a waste of time.
I’d much rather be talking about fighting the ruling class, they’re actually impacting our lives…
Way to miss the point. Trans women are males, therefor are significantly more likely to sexually assault a woman than a female is. Letting trans women have unfettered access to womens safe spaces is like letting a wolf into the hen house.
You still can’t define what a woman is though. I’m asking you to give me your definition of “woman” without using the word woman. If you can’t it means that woman can’t be defined, and that means it essentially doesn’t exist. It erases women. It’s deeply misogynistic.
lol good one. Right back at you buddy.
They are? Women don’t all just stand around peeing on the floor lol. Being separate stalls doesn’t change the fact that if you let men in to the women’s safe space, women are no longer safe. Women have to go in and out of the stalls still.
Women’s sport was not created because of gender, it was created because of sex. Males and females are biologically different, and women would win literally nothing if they had to compete against men - hence, Women’s sport. Go find a women’s sport world record that is even comparable to the corresponding men’s one. Good luck.
It’s not just sports either, it’s everything from scholarships to jobs to awards, and many more. Basically everything that was separated by Sex. They were done so because men and women are fundamentally different.
It’s not a tiny issue for women though. If it’s such a tiny issue, why can’t trans women just use the men’s spaces? Trans women are in less danger in a men’s room than women are with a trans woman in a women’s room, factually and statistically.
It’s possible to talk about more than 1 issue at a time.